LSD
05-13-2010, 11:03 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
LSD
This question is for the guys who have tracked the RS II.....my understanding is that the LSD is no different than what is on the RS I..ie poorly desinged for track use....so how is your LSD holding up?
05-13-2010, 11:29 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
It will not, (GT Gear speak up) 1: the setting is the interaction with the electronics, if you switch it off there will not be enough lock comming out of the corners. Then the clutch packs will wear out. Save your money for a Guards 40/60 or 50/80
05-16-2010, 08:29 PM
#4
Gaurds all the way , Installed it on both my 997.2 GT3 and 997.1 GT2 , i was able to achieve 3 seconds faster on a 2 minute track loads of rear end stablity accelerating from the apex and under braking...
First class service from Matt @ Gaurds
Goodluck
First class service from Matt @ Gaurds
Goodluck
05-16-2010, 10:01 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
TTurbine, What did you use 40/60 or 50/80?
I have a Guard GT2 LSD waiting to be installed....not sure if I will go with the 40/60 or 50/80?
There are many that are very happy going with the 50/80
I have a Guard GT2 LSD waiting to be installed....not sure if I will go with the 40/60 or 50/80?
There are many that are very happy going with the 50/80
05-17-2010, 12:50 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Matt at guards indicated that if the car will not be modified you should go with 40/60. which is what I may do...anyone got PCNA to pay for the labor?
05-17-2010, 02:02 PM
#7
Nordschleife Master
Trending Topics
05-17-2010, 03:14 PM
#8
George , I went with the 40/60... you cant beleive how it improved the cars rear end stability especially with the RS tuning kit i just cant describe it.. It all depends on what you want... Most high hp guys like to go for a low locking ratio...
Matt , Here is the GT3 lap time before we installed the LSD on the GT3 http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1437258 Position 2
2:25.729 sec lap time the cars alignment was in specs
Keep in mind the evo that got the fastest time is a full striped out race car with dunlop slicks on Track was not dusty!!
This is after we installed Gaurds LSD...
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1494640
Position 1 2:21.844 secs... After gaurds.. alignment out of specs..
Faster than the fully striped out evo.. on a dusty track!!!
You can quote me on this
Last edited by TTurbine; 05-17-2010 at 04:46 PM.
05-17-2010, 05:11 PM
#9
Drifting
Another option is to replace the stock internals with Guard pieces and leave the locking ratio as stock. I'm not sure why Porsche chose the ramps that it did, but I tend to have a lot of faith in their engineers and usually leave stuff alone until I have a better understanding of why it was chosen and the trade-offs.
I'm also a cheap bugger, so replacing just the internals is about half the price of replacing the internals and the ramps. I have the Guard friction plates and washers, affectionately called "the stack". It has completely tamed my back end under heavy braking from high speeds. In regards to corner exit traction, there seems to be almost too much and I need to carry more entry speed and pivot the car, otherwise I get corner exit understeer.
Overall, I love the Guard product. Perhaps more importantly, I really appreciated how Matt conducted our transaction. He was extremely helpful, quick to respond, super knowledgeable and worked with my local shop to ensure it was all ordered and installed right.
I'm a happy customer and every car I own in the future will have a Guard product in it.
I'm also a cheap bugger, so replacing just the internals is about half the price of replacing the internals and the ramps. I have the Guard friction plates and washers, affectionately called "the stack". It has completely tamed my back end under heavy braking from high speeds. In regards to corner exit traction, there seems to be almost too much and I need to carry more entry speed and pivot the car, otherwise I get corner exit understeer.
Overall, I love the Guard product. Perhaps more importantly, I really appreciated how Matt conducted our transaction. He was extremely helpful, quick to respond, super knowledgeable and worked with my local shop to ensure it was all ordered and installed right.
I'm a happy customer and every car I own in the future will have a Guard product in it.
05-18-2010, 05:11 PM
#10
Nordschleife Master
fc-racer,
While I totally respect the fact that we rebuilt your LSD with the stock 997 GT3 ramps to keep your car compliant with the class rules that you race under, I am going to disagree with your assertion that their engineers gave you those ramps for a good reason. Well, I guess it would be wrong to say it wasn't a good reason. They had a reason, it just wasn't a reason that was driven by performance and speed.
The reality is it was their intention to make those ramps and their accompanying locking percentages safe more than anything else. I call them "lawyer" ramps. They are the same sort of approach that they used a number of years back when they put 20/100 ramps on the turbo cars. What they are doing with these cars is making them more forgiving for a less experienced driver. There was a time when the majority of Porsche car owners were enthusiasts who were going to drive the car hard and had the experience to match. As the cars have gone more mainstream and end up in less experienced hands, Porsche has systematically made them easier to reel back in if the driver makes a mistake, at the expense of at the limit performance.
Porsche has never put a 28/40 ramp in a race car to my knowledge. Sure, just last weekend they raced a bone stock 997 GT3 in the 24 Hours of The Ring, but that wasn't actually a racecar. That was a marketing event to show that the car, even in showroom trim, is dead reliable. But all of the 997 based GT3 racecars out there are running more aggressive ramps. I think the current spec is something new and weird like 40/52. I don't remember the exact numbers, but they've changed it yet again. They are going less aggressive with the ramps over time as the chassis changes, but I don't think 28/40 is ever going to be the optimum locking percentages for tracking one of these cars. The fact that TTurbine picked up 3 seconds with no other change than our clutch pack and 40/60 ramps speaks to that. I think there are gains to be had by going more aggressive than the stock 28/40, if one's class rules allow the change to the other spec.
While I totally respect the fact that we rebuilt your LSD with the stock 997 GT3 ramps to keep your car compliant with the class rules that you race under, I am going to disagree with your assertion that their engineers gave you those ramps for a good reason. Well, I guess it would be wrong to say it wasn't a good reason. They had a reason, it just wasn't a reason that was driven by performance and speed.
The reality is it was their intention to make those ramps and their accompanying locking percentages safe more than anything else. I call them "lawyer" ramps. They are the same sort of approach that they used a number of years back when they put 20/100 ramps on the turbo cars. What they are doing with these cars is making them more forgiving for a less experienced driver. There was a time when the majority of Porsche car owners were enthusiasts who were going to drive the car hard and had the experience to match. As the cars have gone more mainstream and end up in less experienced hands, Porsche has systematically made them easier to reel back in if the driver makes a mistake, at the expense of at the limit performance.
Porsche has never put a 28/40 ramp in a race car to my knowledge. Sure, just last weekend they raced a bone stock 997 GT3 in the 24 Hours of The Ring, but that wasn't actually a racecar. That was a marketing event to show that the car, even in showroom trim, is dead reliable. But all of the 997 based GT3 racecars out there are running more aggressive ramps. I think the current spec is something new and weird like 40/52. I don't remember the exact numbers, but they've changed it yet again. They are going less aggressive with the ramps over time as the chassis changes, but I don't think 28/40 is ever going to be the optimum locking percentages for tracking one of these cars. The fact that TTurbine picked up 3 seconds with no other change than our clutch pack and 40/60 ramps speaks to that. I think there are gains to be had by going more aggressive than the stock 28/40, if one's class rules allow the change to the other spec.
05-18-2010, 05:20 PM
#11
Drifting
Hey Matt, apologies if it came across in any negative way. As always, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you and your company. I love my Guard stack, it has made braking from high speeds safe again. You matched the product to my needs and I recommend others contact you so that you can fulfill their needs as well. I have to admit though, you're tempting me to change ramps in the future... 
05-18-2010, 06:04 PM
#12
Nordschleife Master
No, no, no. It didn't come off as negative at all. I just wanted to go on the record that I think there's performance to be gained by changing the locking percentages on the LSD to something more aggressive. And I find that when I explain the how and the why of my position a little bit it's way better recieved and understood than the typical web forum response you see where some guy just comes in and says,"No, you're wrong. My way is right."
05-18-2010, 11:34 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Rudtner Racing in Freeport, LI rebuilt my diff using Guard parts as 40/60.. Its a huge improvement
05-19-2010, 12:07 AM
#14
Race Director
No, no, no. It didn't come off as negative at all. I just wanted to go on the record that I think there's performance to be gained by changing the locking percentages on the LSD to something more aggressive. And I find that when I explain the how and the why of my position a little bit it's way better recieved and understood than the typical web forum response you see where some guy just comes in and says,"No, you're wrong. My way is right."
I suspect my LSD is going or gone at 9000 miles.
05-19-2010, 12:11 AM
#15
Nordschleife Master