Michelin global launch of the new Pilot Super Sport in Dubai
12-01-2010, 08:07 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Michelin global launch of the new Pilot Super Sport in Dubai
Well slightly later than anticipated (due to an intervening week in Cancun) I thought I would summarize the global launch
of Michelin's new PS2 replacement tire, the Super Sport.
Thanks to an innovative experiment in viral product marketing and the recognition of RennList as a community of informed
consumers of their high performance product, I found myself (along with other RL'ers) invited to the global launch of Michelin's
latest tyre in the ultra high performance summer market, the replacement for the venerable PS2; the Pilot Super Sport.
The result of race winning technology from several successful campaigns in the Le Mans 24 hour race, along with the use of
leading edge technologies, and intimate technology development partnerships with Porsche, BMW M division, Ferrari, and Mercedes;
the new Super Sport takes the performance of the PS2 to new, and market leading levels (not just what they say, what I experienced)
A global group of automotive journalists, along with a diverse group of "influencers" from Marque clubs and Internet forums (RL included)
were hosted by Michelin at the Dubai Autodrome to experience 1st hand, the performance characteristics of the new Super Sport fitted to
an array of high performance cars alongside some of their competitors products.
Michelin markets their brand as Performance, with Safety and Longevity. The Super Sport is intended to deliver significantly better performance
than it's predecessor the PS2 approaching that of the current Pilot Cup Sport, but with better wear and wet traction characteristics.
The new PS3 will fill the lower end of the performance envelope and sizes (18" and below) currently filled by the PS2, with the Super Sport
providing the OE homologation fitments for Porsche, Ferrari (in particular the 458 Italia and the 599 GTO), As well as BMW M cars and
Mercedes high performance models starting in 2011 when the tyre will also become available to consumers to retrofit to their cars.
While no sizing or pricing was released we can expect Super Sport in 19" to 22" fitments with Porsche N spec homologation sizes available
mid next year.
The Super Sport is not directional but is asymmetrical; comprising a high performance outside shoulder with a tread pattern similar to that found
on the MPSC (with deeper grooves) comprised of a carbon reinforced compound for maximum dry grip, and a softer compound with a more wet
friendly tread pattern for the remainder of the contact patch for better (wet) grip.
The Super Sport also has a new contact patch profile, reengineered for better dry and wet traction as well as much better heat distribution especially
on the shoulder, improving both the traction, longevity and predictability of response under high performance driving conditions.
This I think explains why none of the Super Sports that I looked at during the day on some of the test mules displayed any of the characteristic wear that I
would expect to see on a heavily abused (track) tire, the shoulders and tread pattern while worn showed none of the typical "lipping" of the front of the tread
blocks etc
The Super Sport is also a lot lighter than its predecessor utilizing a flexible carbon fibre technology 5 times stronger than steel by weight, woven into
a belt that better manages tyre and contact patch distortion under centrifugal forces (twolon I think it was called).
These three innovations; the mixed compounds and tread patterns, contact patch management and l/w construction combine to produce a lighter, longer lasting
tire, with much better response in both the wet and dry.
The event itself consisted of a day of on-track "experiences"; wet and dry grip/braking, a short track dry handling circuit, partner engineering and "open"
tracking.
Each experience pitted the Super Sport against some of its competition:
- Continental 5P
- Dunlop Super Maxx
- Bridgestone Potenza
- Pirelli PZero
The dry braking event comprised an E90 M3 with Super Sports and a competitors tires, undertaking dry straight line braking.
In the straight line braking experience I did not think that the SS differed significantly in superior stopping distance (but it was better according to
the vbox data), however the directional stability was very noticably better with the rear end of the M3 staying put vs some juddering and lateral
motion with the comparison tire.
I was last in the line for the wet handling, and we ran out of time, but those that did experience the comparision stated that the wet lateral grip
on the skidpad was very noticable against the competition. Watching the cars on the skid pad it did appear that the SS was superior in both lateral grip,
predictability and stopping ... no MPSC+ here!
We then moved onto the dry lateral grip experience, here we took PCCB/PDK equiped 997 C2S cars for a couple of laps of a short track.
The handling of the C2S was *significantly* better with the Super Sport than the competitor tire, turn in was more precise, rear end traction
was significantly better, and post apex power on to exit was much superior, the car just felt more planted than the competition and the grip levels
and feedback seemed higher.
After this we were driven around the track by Michelin test pilots in technology partnership/customer cars such as the 997 C2S, C4S, and
Turbo, as well as BMW M machinery, Ferarri and M-B hardware.
The purpose of this is to show that a tires personality is usually matched to that of the target car or marque, and is developed cooperatively
with the car manufacturers test drivers and suspension engineers to create a solution that is still Michelin but is also tailored to the application.
I of course stuck to the 997 in the C2S and Turbo configurations; I found the handling of the C2S with the Super Sport to be excellent, easily
in the class of the Corsas on my GT3, and probably not far off of MPSC+ handling in the dry.
Its unfortunately that they choose not to bring the MPSC+ to the launch for comparison. I questioned Michelin on the future of the MPSC+ in
light of the launch of the Super Sport. Jean-Francoise Beaupere, Product Manager for Sport Tyres @ Michelin, stated that the dry handling of
the Super Sport was comparable to that of the MPSC+, other Michelin Product Managers later confirmed that the MPSC+ *MAY* obtain a
refresh in the next couple of years (probably to align with 991 release I wonder?).
The story on the Turbo (and the M-B AMG black "nutter-b*stard" mobile) was I think less compelling, I felt that the BHP&ft/lbs these cars
could deliver really punished the Super Sport at the front, if anything the amazing thing was the degree of punishment it could endure while
still performing well. I think the new carbon compound and heat mgmt must have helped here also. It certainly convinced me that I dont want
to ever track a turbo or some insane BHP M-B black mobile myself ... GT3 Uber Alles!
It is clear to me now that N-spec tires are significantly different than their non homologation brethern, its obvious that Michelin and Porsche
spend a lot of seat time and R&D to ensure that the N-spec rubber behaves as it should as part of the 911s suspension etc ...
We then moved onto the "supercars" and the "open" lapping (lead-follow).
Michelin had acquired a Gumpert, Koenigsegg, MB SLS, 458 Italia, and MB AMB Black serier monster ...
I went for a lap the in M-B AMG Black monster ... all bhp and little else to commend it other than the superb piloting of the car by the Michelin
test pilot.
We closed the day with some lead-follow lapping in an assortment of cars, 997 C2S PCCB+PDK (which I liked), E90 M3, R8 V10, 997 TT, C4S,
M-B something or other, Lambos ...
I was boring and stuck to the 911s which I liked with the Super Sports fitted so I threw it around the track for a few laps as the sun set on Dubai.
All in all, I think that Michelin have moved the game up with these tires as compared to pretty much everything else out there in the market.
I think the Super Sport on a GT3 (when the N spec and sizes become available) will be a great solution, especially for those who anticipate wet
weather, to replace Corsas and even the MPSC+ itself.
I would have liked to do a side by side comparison of the Super Sport with the MPSC+, Michelin hinted that the MPSC+ being a "track" tire might
be a little better in the dry than the Super Sport, however for a wet/street/track combination I doubt there is anything to touch the Super Sport.
I will certainly replace my Corsas with them when the time comes, and I am not getting a free/cheap set for saying so ... so I will be putting my
pennies and GT3 where my mouth is!
I have attached some personal and promo pictures from the event below for your enjoyment!
- Larry
of Michelin's new PS2 replacement tire, the Super Sport.
Thanks to an innovative experiment in viral product marketing and the recognition of RennList as a community of informed
consumers of their high performance product, I found myself (along with other RL'ers) invited to the global launch of Michelin's
latest tyre in the ultra high performance summer market, the replacement for the venerable PS2; the Pilot Super Sport.
The result of race winning technology from several successful campaigns in the Le Mans 24 hour race, along with the use of
leading edge technologies, and intimate technology development partnerships with Porsche, BMW M division, Ferrari, and Mercedes;
the new Super Sport takes the performance of the PS2 to new, and market leading levels (not just what they say, what I experienced)
A global group of automotive journalists, along with a diverse group of "influencers" from Marque clubs and Internet forums (RL included)
were hosted by Michelin at the Dubai Autodrome to experience 1st hand, the performance characteristics of the new Super Sport fitted to
an array of high performance cars alongside some of their competitors products.
Michelin markets their brand as Performance, with Safety and Longevity. The Super Sport is intended to deliver significantly better performance
than it's predecessor the PS2 approaching that of the current Pilot Cup Sport, but with better wear and wet traction characteristics.
The new PS3 will fill the lower end of the performance envelope and sizes (18" and below) currently filled by the PS2, with the Super Sport
providing the OE homologation fitments for Porsche, Ferrari (in particular the 458 Italia and the 599 GTO), As well as BMW M cars and
Mercedes high performance models starting in 2011 when the tyre will also become available to consumers to retrofit to their cars.
While no sizing or pricing was released we can expect Super Sport in 19" to 22" fitments with Porsche N spec homologation sizes available
mid next year.
The Super Sport is not directional but is asymmetrical; comprising a high performance outside shoulder with a tread pattern similar to that found
on the MPSC (with deeper grooves) comprised of a carbon reinforced compound for maximum dry grip, and a softer compound with a more wet
friendly tread pattern for the remainder of the contact patch for better (wet) grip.
The Super Sport also has a new contact patch profile, reengineered for better dry and wet traction as well as much better heat distribution especially
on the shoulder, improving both the traction, longevity and predictability of response under high performance driving conditions.
This I think explains why none of the Super Sports that I looked at during the day on some of the test mules displayed any of the characteristic wear that I
would expect to see on a heavily abused (track) tire, the shoulders and tread pattern while worn showed none of the typical "lipping" of the front of the tread
blocks etc
The Super Sport is also a lot lighter than its predecessor utilizing a flexible carbon fibre technology 5 times stronger than steel by weight, woven into
a belt that better manages tyre and contact patch distortion under centrifugal forces (twolon I think it was called).
These three innovations; the mixed compounds and tread patterns, contact patch management and l/w construction combine to produce a lighter, longer lasting
tire, with much better response in both the wet and dry.
The event itself consisted of a day of on-track "experiences"; wet and dry grip/braking, a short track dry handling circuit, partner engineering and "open"
tracking.
Each experience pitted the Super Sport against some of its competition:
- Continental 5P
- Dunlop Super Maxx
- Bridgestone Potenza
- Pirelli PZero
The dry braking event comprised an E90 M3 with Super Sports and a competitors tires, undertaking dry straight line braking.
In the straight line braking experience I did not think that the SS differed significantly in superior stopping distance (but it was better according to
the vbox data), however the directional stability was very noticably better with the rear end of the M3 staying put vs some juddering and lateral
motion with the comparison tire.
I was last in the line for the wet handling, and we ran out of time, but those that did experience the comparision stated that the wet lateral grip
on the skidpad was very noticable against the competition. Watching the cars on the skid pad it did appear that the SS was superior in both lateral grip,
predictability and stopping ... no MPSC+ here!
We then moved onto the dry lateral grip experience, here we took PCCB/PDK equiped 997 C2S cars for a couple of laps of a short track.
The handling of the C2S was *significantly* better with the Super Sport than the competitor tire, turn in was more precise, rear end traction
was significantly better, and post apex power on to exit was much superior, the car just felt more planted than the competition and the grip levels
and feedback seemed higher.
After this we were driven around the track by Michelin test pilots in technology partnership/customer cars such as the 997 C2S, C4S, and
Turbo, as well as BMW M machinery, Ferarri and M-B hardware.
The purpose of this is to show that a tires personality is usually matched to that of the target car or marque, and is developed cooperatively
with the car manufacturers test drivers and suspension engineers to create a solution that is still Michelin but is also tailored to the application.
I of course stuck to the 997 in the C2S and Turbo configurations; I found the handling of the C2S with the Super Sport to be excellent, easily
in the class of the Corsas on my GT3, and probably not far off of MPSC+ handling in the dry.
Its unfortunately that they choose not to bring the MPSC+ to the launch for comparison. I questioned Michelin on the future of the MPSC+ in
light of the launch of the Super Sport. Jean-Francoise Beaupere, Product Manager for Sport Tyres @ Michelin, stated that the dry handling of
the Super Sport was comparable to that of the MPSC+, other Michelin Product Managers later confirmed that the MPSC+ *MAY* obtain a
refresh in the next couple of years (probably to align with 991 release I wonder?).
The story on the Turbo (and the M-B AMG black "nutter-b*stard" mobile) was I think less compelling, I felt that the BHP&ft/lbs these cars
could deliver really punished the Super Sport at the front, if anything the amazing thing was the degree of punishment it could endure while
still performing well. I think the new carbon compound and heat mgmt must have helped here also. It certainly convinced me that I dont want
to ever track a turbo or some insane BHP M-B black mobile myself ... GT3 Uber Alles!
It is clear to me now that N-spec tires are significantly different than their non homologation brethern, its obvious that Michelin and Porsche
spend a lot of seat time and R&D to ensure that the N-spec rubber behaves as it should as part of the 911s suspension etc ...
We then moved onto the "supercars" and the "open" lapping (lead-follow).
Michelin had acquired a Gumpert, Koenigsegg, MB SLS, 458 Italia, and MB AMB Black serier monster ...
I went for a lap the in M-B AMG Black monster ... all bhp and little else to commend it other than the superb piloting of the car by the Michelin
test pilot.
We closed the day with some lead-follow lapping in an assortment of cars, 997 C2S PCCB+PDK (which I liked), E90 M3, R8 V10, 997 TT, C4S,
M-B something or other, Lambos ...
I was boring and stuck to the 911s which I liked with the Super Sports fitted so I threw it around the track for a few laps as the sun set on Dubai.
All in all, I think that Michelin have moved the game up with these tires as compared to pretty much everything else out there in the market.
I think the Super Sport on a GT3 (when the N spec and sizes become available) will be a great solution, especially for those who anticipate wet
weather, to replace Corsas and even the MPSC+ itself.
I would have liked to do a side by side comparison of the Super Sport with the MPSC+, Michelin hinted that the MPSC+ being a "track" tire might
be a little better in the dry than the Super Sport, however for a wet/street/track combination I doubt there is anything to touch the Super Sport.
I will certainly replace my Corsas with them when the time comes, and I am not getting a free/cheap set for saying so ... so I will be putting my
pennies and GT3 where my mouth is!
I have attached some personal and promo pictures from the event below for your enjoyment!
- Larry
Last edited by Larry Cable; 12-01-2010 at 08:36 PM. Reason: formatting...
12-01-2010, 08:16 PM
#2
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Excellent Larry! That's what I was hoping for.
Best,
Best,
12-01-2010, 08:22 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
no problem least I can do ... any question I can get them answered (or try at least) with Michelin USA...
12-01-2010, 08:25 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
entirely my pleasure (apart from the 15hours in coach!) ...
sorry I didn't get a chance to take more photos, but it was a very busy day with very little time to take snaps or to rest ...
I also tried to convey to Michelin that in RL, especially the GT3 forums they have a highly "tuned" group of customers willing to provide input on their product ...
Hopefully this will not be forgotten if and when it comes time to redesign the MPSC+.
If I could persuade Michelin to part with a set of MPSC+ and Super Sports I'd even consider doing a youtube back-to-back comparison of them ...
sorry I didn't get a chance to take more photos, but it was a very busy day with very little time to take snaps or to rest ...
I also tried to convey to Michelin that in RL, especially the GT3 forums they have a highly "tuned" group of customers willing to provide input on their product ...
Hopefully this will not be forgotten if and when it comes time to redesign the MPSC+.
If I could persuade Michelin to part with a set of MPSC+ and Super Sports I'd even consider doing a youtube back-to-back comparison of them ...
Trending Topics
12-01-2010, 08:41 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
it was a lot of fun ... clearly Michelin have invested a lot in this tire and its launch (the event spanned multiple days with journos et al from all over the world) ...
its also clear that they want to be a market leader in this segment and are prepared to put their money behind that goal.
Honestly, without having a back-to-back comparison at hand, I would have to ask myself why I would put MPSC+ on a car with the Super Sport available, unless I was switching from track to street wheels ... I dont think the MPSC+ advantage (if in fact it has one) is likely to be large enough to beat the Super Sport for wet handling and longevity as well as streetability.
I would love to get a set of each and do a back to back at Sears, Laguna or Thunderhill ...
its also clear that they want to be a market leader in this segment and are prepared to put their money behind that goal.
Honestly, without having a back-to-back comparison at hand, I would have to ask myself why I would put MPSC+ on a car with the Super Sport available, unless I was switching from track to street wheels ... I dont think the MPSC+ advantage (if in fact it has one) is likely to be large enough to beat the Super Sport for wet handling and longevity as well as streetability.
I would love to get a set of each and do a back to back at Sears, Laguna or Thunderhill ...
12-01-2010, 08:44 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I dont think the "nails are in the coffin" yet on the sizing; obviously Michelin will (initially at least) focus on their customers (Ferarri, Porsche, BMW M and M-B) sizes and homologation, but I think that over time more sizes will become available ... perhaps in the 996 GT3 sizes ...
only time and demand will tell ...
Regards
- Larry
12-01-2010, 09:19 PM
#10
Nordschleife Master
You lucky guy! Thanks very much for your excellent review. 
You answered all I had in mind except noise. How did the tire noise sound to you?
You answered all I had in mind except noise. How did the tire noise sound to you?
12-01-2010, 09:41 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
12-01-2010, 09:43 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Very interesting stuff, thanks larry. This may be what I'm looking for. I have been averaging just under 3K be set of rear MPSC's for the first 37K miles on my 997.1 GT3. Now that I have the SW3.9 I have only been getting 2200-2600 miles per set!! Did you happen to notice what the tread wear rating was on the new SS? I haven't been able to find anything about that.
12-01-2010, 09:51 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Very interesting stuff, thanks larry. This may be what I'm looking for. I have been averaging just under 3K be set of rear MPSC's for the first 37K miles on my 997.1 GT3. Now that I have the SW3.9 I have only been getting 2200-2600 miles per set!! Did you happen to notice what the tread wear rating was on the new SS? I haven't been able to find anything about that.
Only after the event did I come up with a list of things I should have done better... Including fact gathering!
I think it would be worth trying them when they become available I think you might get better wear than the MPSC+
12-01-2010, 09:57 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
I tried a set of ps2's, they were awful! Only ran them for about 1500 miles, no grip, no turn in and they were very poor under braking. They scared the sh#t out of me! The SS has to be an improvement!!
12-01-2010, 10:02 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'd love to do a back to back of the Super Sports with the MPSC and have suggested this to Michelin for some viral marketing