silverboy

Sorry if most of you already saw this. Makes a Carrera GT + RS 4.0 LE + 458 seem like pocket change LoL.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...5-million.html

-eztrader-

wow!!!

P.J.S.

Nice - another gto in Seattle
They are everywhere around here

tcsracing1

f-sakes....... another dream crushed.....

i swear, if i ever develop renewable energy to replace combustion engines and make stupid money i will have a 59' Ferrari 250 LWB, alloy body, covered headlight, california spider as my daily driver.... and a 250 GTO as my rainy day car

NJ-GT

Old Fiats (the unreliable ones) are moving up steady. 250 GTO is at the Top of the chain.

Dino, F40 and F50 are gaining rapidly. There is no love for the Enzo. 288 GTO is out of control. 512bb is gaining love again.

In the meantime, on the low end cars, the 360 Challenge Stradale (one of the most beautiful modern cars made by Fiat) is appreciating, and the Scuderia has stayed flat for 42 months.

F430 and 360 getting cheaper everyday. 355 and 348 getting into the no love zone. 308/328 defeating the crappy economy.

458 Italia about to start falling, any type of recent Spider (348 and up) just fine.

Doc GTO

Ah, the 288 GTO pure sex!!!

sws1

$3.5M in 1996.
$8.5M in early 2000s
$35M in 2012

10x increase in 15 years. I wish I could get returns like that.

C.J. Ichiban

rad- what is the market for a 3k-10k mi 360CS? that always seemed like a car I'd want to get into. Scud also. great lines, and love the minimalist interior. f40 at 500k for a worn out one is a lot of coin!

NJ-GT

CJ, you drive your cars and enjoy them the way they are intended to. 599 was a nice step, if you ever get a chance to do the HGTE package on a budget, you will love the 599 even more.

Small problem with the Stradale. The car came with little toe-in at the rear and it would hit the rear bump stops at high speed turns on bumpy roads. I don't know the exact number of wrecked Stradales, but it could be anywhere from 30% to 50% of them in U.S.

There are around 600 Scuderias in U.S., with an official number of 250 2008 Scuderia (official from FNA), and around 350 2009 Scuderias (based on multiple sources but nothing official). Stradales are in the 353-370 total number in U.S. (based on multiple sources and nothing official). A decent number of Stradales left U.S. between 2008-2011, and plenty have been wrecked and lost, or wrecked and repaired.

My guess is that there are less than 150 clean Stradales in U.S. right now, and the effect of such guess is that for the last 18 months the Stradales have appreciated.

I followed the Stradale market for a long time, as it was the car I wanted, to replace my 996 GT3 just after a year of GT3 ownership. When I was ready to pull the trigger, the F430 won on all the performance and reliability metrics I ran, and I ended up shopping for a F430, suddenly ended up with a 997.1 Orange GT3RS but did not love the car and 8 months later I let it go to shop for a F430 again or a 997 GT2.

I wanted Carbon race seats and CCB brakes in the F430, Black interior, Red exterior, nothing else, but even today it is a hard find. Almost bought the 997 GT2 but the mark-up ($20k over for a $220k loaded White 2009 GT2) and the expected depreciation made me walk away, a few days later I test drove the 7GT2 and did not like it, it felt heavy, quiet and numb.

After the GT2 disappointment, I went back to F430 shopping, but started to consider the Scuderia and the Carrera GT, there were a few CGT in the $275k range back in early 2009. A week before closing a deal on a 2005 F430 for $185k, the opportunity knocked the door with a brand new canceled order 2009 430 Scuderia, and that's the car I got. My 09 Scuderia had a $303k sticker at the time I bought it (San Francisco), a 04 Stradale was available for $160k, almost 1/2 the price.

Within a year, my Scuderia lost $120k on resale, and the Stradale went down $35k, at one point in 2010 you could have bought a clean Stradale for $120k.

To compare apples to apples, if you find a clean (accident free) 2004 360 Challenge Stradale in Rosso Corsa (the classic Fiat Red), with 10,000 miles, all service records and the stripes, be ready to pay $155k for it. If you find a 2008 430 Scuderia with 10,000 miles, Rosso Corsa, all service records and stripes, be ready to pay $180k for it.

Is a 4 years newer car with same mileage worth $25k more on a car in the $150k price range, answer is yes in most cases, if hypothetically there were 2008 Stradales, but there is no such thing, the Scuderia is a radically different car.

In my opinion, the Scuderia should be worth $75k more than the Stradale, but I don't determine the market. There are many flaws in the Stradale and some of them cannot be fixed (the slow transmission, the soft LSD, and the fragile engine).

I think Stradales will continue to appreciate, and possibly could become more expensive than Scuderias, supply/demand. With this said, many Stradale owners have moved up to a Scuderia, and very few have gone back.

The Stradale makes nicer sounds (5-valve per cylinder V8 evolved from the 70s), it is a car that feels like a highly strung car, even at moderate speeds it feels furious, the messy alignment makes it tail happy, so it feels more visceral than the 430 Scuderia. The Scuderia is louder when driven hard, but quieter when driven slow, better steering feel, better brakes, stiffer, but loses on engine sound refinement, the Scuderia transmission is the best sequential I have driven and I would not trade this transmission for any DCT/PDK, I have driven many PDK, I owned the DCT-M3, my last DCT experience was a few weeks ago with the Graziano unit in the MP4-12C, and the Scuderia triumphs them all.

Depending on how you drive the Stradale, you will be dealing with $$$ maintenance bills.

Performance wise, this is my opinion, and in-line with most instrumented testing done on these cars:

Scuderia > 997.2 3.8 RS > 997.2 GT3 > 997.1 GT3 RS > 997.1 GT3 > 996.2 GT3 > Stradale

You can't go wrong with a Scuderia or Stradale, they are like nothing else out there. There is really nothing that compares to these two in term of feeling and dynamics (and I give Zero value to the Cavallino Rampante in this opinion, because that removes objectivity).

aussie jimmy

couldn't ask for a better answer.
stradale is VERY loud. scud has the exhaust flapper valves, so on/off.

richk

I heard there were 2 GTO's sold in this price range...WOW!!!

silverboy

Ya - me too and you get pride of ownership while getting those great returns!

stevecolletti

And invitations to events that money (by itself) will not get you into.

GuyR

That GTO was owned by someone who lived in my road, well in his Medievel Manor House in the centre of his vineyard, that is on my street that is......I've never seen the car though.

carcommander

I doubt many people drive their GTO very much if ever.