The GT2 RS, a different perspective
01-09-2013, 09:57 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The GT2 RS, a different perspective
As some of you may know, I joined RL about three months ago. Somehow, in spite of collecting Porsche Turbos for nearly 25 years, I never came across this site (although I'm not a big internet person). In this time, I have read with great interest on a wide variety of topics here, and made a few posts in search of cars and opinions to get a feel for the community. Without reservation, the members have been friendly, intelligent and engaging - thank you all!
I have followed with great interest the various discussion surrounding the GT2 RS and would like offer a different perspective here. Please understand that I am in no way dismissing any other opinion as less than valid, merely offering another one. Mine comes from owning more than 30 Turbos, every factory variation, most of the serious tuners - Ruf (yes, real ones with Ruf Vins), DP Motorsports, Gemballa - and most importantly to this post, two GT2 RS's.
My sense in following the discussions is that most of the RL members are track people, which I seriously applaud as I just don't have the proverbial ***** for it. I also sense that almost everyone who has written about this car has neither owned one nor driven one. For those that do own this car, track performance is essentially irrelevant. With a few exceptions, these cars will never be near the track. They are owned by collectors, of both Porsches and other marques like McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc... They are much more likely to be driven to a second home on the weekend, or the country club for dinner, then on the road at 100 mph+ (if they're driven at all). For me and those I know well, it's about the combination of street fun, design, rarity and the intangible pleasure of just knowing it's in the garage.
How do I know this? Well, I own two and close friends own another dozen. That alone is more than 10% of the US production. Add in friends of friends and you're nearing half of all US cars. This is real, firsthand experience with those have written checks for these cars. Once again, though, it doesn't make my opinion any better, just different.
The GT2 RS is the most advanced car Porsche has ever built. The turbo lag is so minimal that you can hardly call it as such. The balance, agility, braking and feel on the road is perfect. The styling is aggressive yet way more subtle than the GT3 RS or most supercars. And speaking of supercars, for those are what the owners of these compare them to, it outperforms most of them in nearly every category, has better fit and finish, and is certainly much more dependable. Is this car fast? Hell yes. Supercar fast and frankly, even dangerous in the hands of an inexperienced or ego-heavy driver.
Some like the carbon fiber body components aesthetically, others not so much. I do, that's just me. The interior, especially in the black and red, is fun, different and just what a car like this should have, but again, not for everyone. It has just enough creature comforts to be drivable on the street for a while, but not too many as to lose the RS ethos.
As for valuation, no doubt the MSRP is expensive but let's put it in context: only 500 were built and a few are already dead and buried (and I'm sure a few more will be over time). They're trading at about 10% below MSRP when actual buyers and sellers get together, which puts them generally in the $230-250,000 range today. In the supercar realm, they're actually inexpensive. They're even arguably inexpensive (or how about under-valued) in the Porsche world when compared to a the CGT (1270 or so built) and the 4.0 RS (600 built).
I assure you that I have no vested interest in promoting this car - I'm only a buyer, not a seller. In fact, I hope that the consensus opinions I've read here come true and these cars start trading in the sub $170,000 range - I'll buy every good one!
I'm sure this will stir some discussion; hopefully it is enjoyable reading from the non-track side of the tracks!
Have a nice evening everyone.
I have followed with great interest the various discussion surrounding the GT2 RS and would like offer a different perspective here. Please understand that I am in no way dismissing any other opinion as less than valid, merely offering another one. Mine comes from owning more than 30 Turbos, every factory variation, most of the serious tuners - Ruf (yes, real ones with Ruf Vins), DP Motorsports, Gemballa - and most importantly to this post, two GT2 RS's.
My sense in following the discussions is that most of the RL members are track people, which I seriously applaud as I just don't have the proverbial ***** for it. I also sense that almost everyone who has written about this car has neither owned one nor driven one. For those that do own this car, track performance is essentially irrelevant. With a few exceptions, these cars will never be near the track. They are owned by collectors, of both Porsches and other marques like McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc... They are much more likely to be driven to a second home on the weekend, or the country club for dinner, then on the road at 100 mph+ (if they're driven at all). For me and those I know well, it's about the combination of street fun, design, rarity and the intangible pleasure of just knowing it's in the garage.
How do I know this? Well, I own two and close friends own another dozen. That alone is more than 10% of the US production. Add in friends of friends and you're nearing half of all US cars. This is real, firsthand experience with those have written checks for these cars. Once again, though, it doesn't make my opinion any better, just different.
The GT2 RS is the most advanced car Porsche has ever built. The turbo lag is so minimal that you can hardly call it as such. The balance, agility, braking and feel on the road is perfect. The styling is aggressive yet way more subtle than the GT3 RS or most supercars. And speaking of supercars, for those are what the owners of these compare them to, it outperforms most of them in nearly every category, has better fit and finish, and is certainly much more dependable. Is this car fast? Hell yes. Supercar fast and frankly, even dangerous in the hands of an inexperienced or ego-heavy driver.
Some like the carbon fiber body components aesthetically, others not so much. I do, that's just me. The interior, especially in the black and red, is fun, different and just what a car like this should have, but again, not for everyone. It has just enough creature comforts to be drivable on the street for a while, but not too many as to lose the RS ethos.
As for valuation, no doubt the MSRP is expensive but let's put it in context: only 500 were built and a few are already dead and buried (and I'm sure a few more will be over time). They're trading at about 10% below MSRP when actual buyers and sellers get together, which puts them generally in the $230-250,000 range today. In the supercar realm, they're actually inexpensive. They're even arguably inexpensive (or how about under-valued) in the Porsche world when compared to a the CGT (1270 or so built) and the 4.0 RS (600 built).
I assure you that I have no vested interest in promoting this car - I'm only a buyer, not a seller. In fact, I hope that the consensus opinions I've read here come true and these cars start trading in the sub $170,000 range - I'll buy every good one!
I'm sure this will stir some discussion; hopefully it is enjoyable reading from the non-track side of the tracks!
Have a nice evening everyone.
.
01-09-2013, 11:34 PM
#6
This well-written post clearly articulates another view of our passionate hobby. I am a track guy but I am beginning better to appreciate the collector aspect. I have a 1972 Lotus Élan Sprint which would scare me to death on the track but I enjoy driving it immensely. And notice how many famous racers purchase their old race cars just to have them around? Those cars are never intended to see the track again. I think that is part of what the OP and his friends get out of this and it is as valid (well, almost) as what we do with our cars on the track.
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01-10-2013, 12:01 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
As some of you may know, I joined RL about three months ago. Somehow, in spite of collecting Porsche Turbos for nearly 25 years, I never came across this site (although I'm not a big internet person). In this time, I have read with great interest on a wide variety of topics here, and made a few posts in search of cars and opinions to get a feel for the community. Without reservation, the members have been friendly, intelligent and engaging - thank you all!
I have followed with great interest the various discussion surrounding the GT2 RS and would like offer a different perspective here. Please understand that I am in no way dismissing any other opinion as less than valid, merely offering another one. Mine comes from owning more than 30 Turbos, every factory variation, most of the serious tuners - Ruf (yes, real ones with Ruf Vins), DP Motorsports, Gemballa - and most importantly to this post, two GT2 RS's.
My sense in following the discussions is that most of the RL members are track people, which I seriously applaud as I just don't have the proverbial ***** for it. I also sense that almost everyone who has written about this car has neither owned one nor driven one. For those that do own this car, track performance is essentially irrelevant. With a few exceptions, these cars will never be near the track. They are owned by collectors, of both Porsches and other marques like McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc... They are much more likely to be driven to a second home on the weekend, or the country club for dinner, then on the road at 100 mph+ (if they're driven at all). For me and those I know well, it's about the combination of street fun, design, rarity and the intangible pleasure of just knowing it's in the garage.
How do I know this? Well, I own two and close friends own another dozen. That alone is more than 10% of the US production. Add in friends of friends and you're nearing half of all US cars. This is real, firsthand experience with those have written checks for these cars. Once again, though, it doesn't make my opinion any better, just different.
The GT2 RS is the most advanced car Porsche has ever built. The turbo lag is so minimal that you can hardly call it as such. The balance, agility, braking and feel on the road is perfect. The styling is aggressive yet way more subtle than the GT3 RS or most supercars. And speaking of supercars, for those are what the owners of these compare them to, it outperforms most of them in nearly every category, has better fit and finish, and is certainly much more dependable. Is this car fast? Hell yes. Supercar fast and frankly, even dangerous in the hands of an inexperienced or ego-heavy driver.
Some like the carbon fiber body components aesthetically, others not so much. I do, that's just me. The interior, especially in the black and red, is fun, different and just what a car like this should have, but again, not for everyone. It has just enough creature comforts to be drivable on the street for a while, but not too many as to lose the RS ethos.
As for valuation, no doubt the MSRP is expensive but let's put it in context: only 500 were built and a few are already dead and buried (and I'm sure a few more will be over time). They're trading at about 10% below MSRP when actual buyers and sellers get together, which puts them generally in the $230-250,000 range today. In the supercar realm, they're actually inexpensive. They're even arguably inexpensive (or how about under-valued) in the Porsche world when compared to a the CGT (1270 or so built) and the 4.0 RS (600 built).
I assure you that I have no vested interest in promoting this car - I'm only a buyer, not a seller. In fact, I hope that the consensus opinions I've read here come true and these cars start trading in the sub $170,000 range - I'll buy every good one!
I'm sure this will stir some discussion; hopefully it is enjoyable reading from the non-track side of the tracks!
Have a nice evening everyone.
I have followed with great interest the various discussion surrounding the GT2 RS and would like offer a different perspective here. Please understand that I am in no way dismissing any other opinion as less than valid, merely offering another one. Mine comes from owning more than 30 Turbos, every factory variation, most of the serious tuners - Ruf (yes, real ones with Ruf Vins), DP Motorsports, Gemballa - and most importantly to this post, two GT2 RS's.
My sense in following the discussions is that most of the RL members are track people, which I seriously applaud as I just don't have the proverbial ***** for it. I also sense that almost everyone who has written about this car has neither owned one nor driven one. For those that do own this car, track performance is essentially irrelevant. With a few exceptions, these cars will never be near the track. They are owned by collectors, of both Porsches and other marques like McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc... They are much more likely to be driven to a second home on the weekend, or the country club for dinner, then on the road at 100 mph+ (if they're driven at all). For me and those I know well, it's about the combination of street fun, design, rarity and the intangible pleasure of just knowing it's in the garage.
How do I know this? Well, I own two and close friends own another dozen. That alone is more than 10% of the US production. Add in friends of friends and you're nearing half of all US cars. This is real, firsthand experience with those have written checks for these cars. Once again, though, it doesn't make my opinion any better, just different.
The GT2 RS is the most advanced car Porsche has ever built. The turbo lag is so minimal that you can hardly call it as such. The balance, agility, braking and feel on the road is perfect. The styling is aggressive yet way more subtle than the GT3 RS or most supercars. And speaking of supercars, for those are what the owners of these compare them to, it outperforms most of them in nearly every category, has better fit and finish, and is certainly much more dependable. Is this car fast? Hell yes. Supercar fast and frankly, even dangerous in the hands of an inexperienced or ego-heavy driver.
Some like the carbon fiber body components aesthetically, others not so much. I do, that's just me. The interior, especially in the black and red, is fun, different and just what a car like this should have, but again, not for everyone. It has just enough creature comforts to be drivable on the street for a while, but not too many as to lose the RS ethos.
As for valuation, no doubt the MSRP is expensive but let's put it in context: only 500 were built and a few are already dead and buried (and I'm sure a few more will be over time). They're trading at about 10% below MSRP when actual buyers and sellers get together, which puts them generally in the $230-250,000 range today. In the supercar realm, they're actually inexpensive. They're even arguably inexpensive (or how about under-valued) in the Porsche world when compared to a the CGT (1270 or so built) and the 4.0 RS (600 built).
I assure you that I have no vested interest in promoting this car - I'm only a buyer, not a seller. In fact, I hope that the consensus opinions I've read here come true and these cars start trading in the sub $170,000 range - I'll buy every good one!
I'm sure this will stir some discussion; hopefully it is enjoyable reading from the non-track side of the tracks!
Have a nice evening everyone.
Thank you, I love the looks of a black GT2RS nicest looking one!
There are many aspects to the (exotic) car hobby. On these pages you will get the mosy track obsessed slanted replies. A GT2 RS is track worthy, you can argue forever what's better on the track, but it is between Porsches. Other much more expensive stuff shows up at the track and we have a good belly laugh and bet veer what session it will go on the flat bed..
Im at Sebring now and one of us brought a GT3RS and a McLaren, but the Fax machine will only do a session or so. I hope we can beat on it all 4 days and see if it survives!
+1 Please.
Like most of us here, but we are a small percentage of buyers pushing the prices up together with the cars and coffee collectors! RS cars are damn good at being daily drivers track weapons collector cars and status symbols all rolled into one.
01-10-2013, 12:33 AM
#11
GT3 player par excellence
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Lifetime Rennlist
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i can appreciate secret collector's point of view.
i came from concourse, then became track junkie.
i like a bit of both. and to each his own. they are all fun but in different ways. beside tracking, i also enjoy working on the car (what little i can do) and detail the car as if they were garage queens.
i have had a chance to drive 2RS. it is incredibly fast, though a different experience.
pin ball machine vs video games. both good, but different.
snow board vs ski
mt bike vs road bike
tube vs SS.
list goes on. you get the pix
congrats on your 2RS collection!
i came from concourse, then became track junkie.
i like a bit of both. and to each his own. they are all fun but in different ways. beside tracking, i also enjoy working on the car (what little i can do) and detail the car as if they were garage queens.
i have had a chance to drive 2RS. it is incredibly fast, though a different experience.
pin ball machine vs video games. both good, but different.
snow board vs ski
mt bike vs road bike
tube vs SS.
list goes on. you get the pix
congrats on your 2RS collection!
01-10-2013, 01:28 AM
#15
Rennlist Member
Regardless of production numbers, the CGT is still the most exclusive Porsche and the only one that says "ive arrived." I think its ludicrous to compare any 911 variant to it.
The 911 series has serious diminishing returns once you venture into the limited production rs models. But like anything in life, the last few % of performance are the most expensive.
Enjoy!
The 911 series has serious diminishing returns once you venture into the limited production rs models. But like anything in life, the last few % of performance are the most expensive.
Enjoy!