Any of you "GT3 Track" guys take delivery of a 991 GT3 yet???
01-14-2014, 08:32 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Any of you "GT3 Track" guys take delivery of a 991 GT3 yet???
Fellow GT3 DE'ers:
I am still anxiously awaiting comments from the "old guard" GT3 DE crowd on the 991 GT3 on the track!!! How does it rotate? How does the 4 wheel steering feel? What do you think of the new PDK? Is the car still "pure" to Porsche standards? And lastly - is it worth it?
As an observation, I have been on Rennlist since the late 1990's, and was an active member of the 996 GT3 & 997 GT3 boards when those boards were created. What is different about the 991 GT3 board today is that the "active participants" don't seem to be track guys… Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it feels like a Cars-n-Coffee event rather then a bunch of guys hanging around the pits between run groups (like this board)… Just saying'.
I am on the fence with this car. I was able to see it in person at the Geneva Auto Show last March, and it is a looker. I'm just not a fan of the aggressive electronic replacement of driver involvement. To me, a GT3 on the track is sacred ground. Sure, it is not a race car - but it feels like one AND can be driven to the grocery store. How vintage 911…
Thanks for listening to that rant!
-Blake
I am still anxiously awaiting comments from the "old guard" GT3 DE crowd on the 991 GT3 on the track!!! How does it rotate? How does the 4 wheel steering feel? What do you think of the new PDK? Is the car still "pure" to Porsche standards? And lastly - is it worth it?
As an observation, I have been on Rennlist since the late 1990's, and was an active member of the 996 GT3 & 997 GT3 boards when those boards were created. What is different about the 991 GT3 board today is that the "active participants" don't seem to be track guys… Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it feels like a Cars-n-Coffee event rather then a bunch of guys hanging around the pits between run groups (like this board)… Just saying'.
I am on the fence with this car. I was able to see it in person at the Geneva Auto Show last March, and it is a looker. I'm just not a fan of the aggressive electronic replacement of driver involvement. To me, a GT3 on the track is sacred ground. Sure, it is not a race car - but it feels like one AND can be driven to the grocery store. How vintage 911…
Thanks for listening to that rant!
-Blake
01-14-2014, 09:33 PM
#2
Yes.....Beginning of March is first day of the new season on a 'repaved' VIR so more comparisons then. Quite a few posts in the 991 GT3 forum on this topic. Needless to say... it is an incredible car on every level and moves the genre on very well.
01-14-2014, 10:06 PM
#3
Track use seems to be teasing the gremlins out. Bad batch of cam sensors....
01-15-2014, 01:29 PM
#7
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...e-problem.html
Hey Michael - you have to get to drive your buddies car and see what you think. You know you need to create the sequel to The Dark Knight!!
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01-15-2014, 02:55 PM
#8
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I have not tracked GT3 before but have tracked other cars quite a lot at pretty good pace. Just took 991 GT3 delivery 2 days ago. Have not had it on the track yet and have not yet driven the engine all out (I believe in break-in at least a little bit). But I have already driven it hard enough to pull more than 1G in every direction :-). So far I'm impressed. I will do a track day as soon as I find time (it's warm enough here), but for now I can comment on few things already. Keep in mind that my point of reference is an e90 M3 with track modded suspension and brakes and regular 991.
Steering - closer to M3 (hydraulic) feel than to 991 C2S. I did not get as much buzzing vibration from road in hands as in M3, but can clearly feel that the car moving, changes in road texture or camber and pretty much anything I'd like to feel. So a bit of noise is removed but everything useful is still there. I like it a lot - it actually makes is easier to sense traction and road camber changes, plus hands do not get numb after driving for a while as much. For comparison, in 991 C2S I instinctively turned wheel a bit to either side to check that it's still connected to the wheels
Placing the car on the road is telepathic. It may be overall lack of roll or RWS or low tire side-wall or a combination of things, but the immediacy is unbelievable. In any car I drove, there is a fraction of a second, an eye-blink, it takes the car to catch up to steering - something like turbo-lag but for steering. And I'm not talking about a boat-like delay of a typical SUV. I mean the angle at the first instant after steering input being slightly different from the stable steering angle at the same input. Here it's reduced below perceptible level, at least in driving I have done so far. The benefit is that it takes much less time to "learn" the car - you do not need to build a database of internal adjustments in you brain, because the car just does it right away. I hope that makes sense.
PDK-S - best non-manual transmission I experienced, in any mode. Just enough drama to keep it real but no flamboyancy of some Italian models or robots-humping-in-the-back-seat soundtrack of GTR. I was 90% satisfied with M3 DCT, and MUCH preferred it to C2S PDK in 997 and slightly preferred to PDK in 991, but now after driving GT3 I cannot stop finding issues with it.
Another thing is that most auto transmissions (and actually some new manuals) take over control of throttle during shifting to blip and/or to smoothen up the shift (or do the opposite, in some cases). Kind of making engine help the transmission. And in most cases it's perceptible and annoying that the engine is not exactly under your control, even for an instant. In this GT3 it's not happening - engine gets exactly the throttle you give it, and transmission adjusts to it. It's a very fine detail and may not matter to some, but in my case it totally ruined all other automatics for me. Some may miss the manual - you milage may wary.
Brakes - have not noticed anything special compared to other cars of same class. Great feel. Did not drive hard enough to assess heat capacity.
In general, the car feels very well dampened - takes set quickly with no perceptible oscillations back and forth. It's surprising because the ride is actually compliant, probably slightly more so than in previous GT3.
In general, the car is extremely easy to drive. But in a good way - it does not do the work for you as much (except shifting) but it just communicates really well, with great immediacy, and has little-to-no idiosyncrasies that would require adjusting to. So no matter what you drove before - get in and you can do your best in it. Some who invested a lot of time into learning specifics of driving a 911 may not like that going away to an extent, but I like this - I like being able to focus on universal driving skills rather than fighting that specific car's quirks.
In general, I'm happy. I'll take it to a track as soon as I can and will write another review with new info.
Steering - closer to M3 (hydraulic) feel than to 991 C2S. I did not get as much buzzing vibration from road in hands as in M3, but can clearly feel that the car moving, changes in road texture or camber and pretty much anything I'd like to feel. So a bit of noise is removed but everything useful is still there. I like it a lot - it actually makes is easier to sense traction and road camber changes, plus hands do not get numb after driving for a while as much. For comparison, in 991 C2S I instinctively turned wheel a bit to either side to check that it's still connected to the wheels
Placing the car on the road is telepathic. It may be overall lack of roll or RWS or low tire side-wall or a combination of things, but the immediacy is unbelievable. In any car I drove, there is a fraction of a second, an eye-blink, it takes the car to catch up to steering - something like turbo-lag but for steering. And I'm not talking about a boat-like delay of a typical SUV. I mean the angle at the first instant after steering input being slightly different from the stable steering angle at the same input. Here it's reduced below perceptible level, at least in driving I have done so far. The benefit is that it takes much less time to "learn" the car - you do not need to build a database of internal adjustments in you brain, because the car just does it right away. I hope that makes sense.
PDK-S - best non-manual transmission I experienced, in any mode. Just enough drama to keep it real but no flamboyancy of some Italian models or robots-humping-in-the-back-seat soundtrack of GTR. I was 90% satisfied with M3 DCT, and MUCH preferred it to C2S PDK in 997 and slightly preferred to PDK in 991, but now after driving GT3 I cannot stop finding issues with it.
Another thing is that most auto transmissions (and actually some new manuals) take over control of throttle during shifting to blip and/or to smoothen up the shift (or do the opposite, in some cases). Kind of making engine help the transmission. And in most cases it's perceptible and annoying that the engine is not exactly under your control, even for an instant. In this GT3 it's not happening - engine gets exactly the throttle you give it, and transmission adjusts to it. It's a very fine detail and may not matter to some, but in my case it totally ruined all other automatics for me. Some may miss the manual - you milage may wary.
Brakes - have not noticed anything special compared to other cars of same class. Great feel. Did not drive hard enough to assess heat capacity.
In general, the car feels very well dampened - takes set quickly with no perceptible oscillations back and forth. It's surprising because the ride is actually compliant, probably slightly more so than in previous GT3.
In general, the car is extremely easy to drive. But in a good way - it does not do the work for you as much (except shifting) but it just communicates really well, with great immediacy, and has little-to-no idiosyncrasies that would require adjusting to. So no matter what you drove before - get in and you can do your best in it. Some who invested a lot of time into learning specifics of driving a 911 may not like that going away to an extent, but I like this - I like being able to focus on universal driving skills rather than fighting that specific car's quirks.
In general, I'm happy. I'll take it to a track as soon as I can and will write another review with new info.
01-16-2014, 01:04 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
No doubt the PDK-S still rev the engine to match the vehicle speed during downshift? The other way around is quite impossible...
Or maybe I am just not understanding it right?
Or maybe I am just not understanding it right?
Another thing is that most auto transmissions (and actually some new manuals) take over control of throttle during shifting to blip and/or to smoothen up the shift (or do the opposite, in some cases). Kind of making engine help the transmission. And in most cases it's perceptible and annoying that the engine is not exactly under your control, even for an instant. In this GT3 it's not happening - engine gets exactly the throttle you give it, and transmission adjusts to it. It's a very fine detail and may not matter to some, but in my case it totally ruined all other automatics for me. Some may miss the manual - you milage may wary.
