secretcollector

Got your attention? Good. Now I want your unvarnished opinion to a question that is meant to be totally in good fun (like the barstool debate of the best quarterback of all time):

20 years from now (plenty of time for major advances in technology and for the full benefit of rose-colored hindsight), which of these three modern legends will be widely regarded (within and outside the Porsche community) as the greatest and most important car to come out of Stuttgart post-959 and pre-new automotive era (aka the 991), and why?

As I said above, I'm looking for solid barstool arguments in all directions here; obviously there is no right or wrong answer but I'm fully expecting to enjoy some great reading over the coming days!

number9ine

Kinda torn here because I sense an agenda in your posts seeking concours queen examples of these cars. Looking for the right Porsches and keeping them right for future generations is a great goal to my mind. On the other hand, I have a low opinion of speculators in this market, I personally think that ruins it for the rest of us who don't necessarily have the means to keep many unicorns in the stable. What's your motive?

To address the question at hand regarding greatest and most important:

4.0 - The last and arguably greatest of the Mezger-derived road motors. The ultimate expression of the everyman's track day Porsche and the last vestige of "race on Sunday, sell on Monday" that the factory can claim. 600 made.
CGT - Making sweet music out of a shelved racing V10, killing movie stars and track-day orthodontists with tricky dynamics. 1270 made. This is Porsche expressing what it's capable of without constraint.
GT2RS - Turning up the boost on the Mezger, something accomplished by every Porsche tuner everywhere on Turbos so not really a unique feat excepting it's a factory effort; also the most powerful contemporary Porsche. 500 made.

It's a near tie between 4.0 and CGT. I think that relative to original purchase price, the 4.0 will see a better return on investment by percentage. I also think that it's a car that more people will have seen in action on the street and track, which is important from an enthusiast's standpoint. As the CGT ages you'll find less people willing to take them out of the wrapper so they'll be mostly regarded and experienced as museum pieces.

The GT2RS is just another Turbo with GT bits and big scrolls. It's unparalleled as a technical exercise for the 911, but if you want to see Porsche flex their engineering muscle without regard to cost or sensibility you look to their hypercars: 959, CGT, 918. You'll never reproduce what makes a 4.0 or CGT special at a tuner shop (Sharkwerks comes close with their 3.9 and 4.1), but everybody and their brother who can afford a Turbo and a Tapout shirt can jack the boost on their Mezger and add CF parts.

My $.02 as an enthusiast of all these cars. Take it for what it's worth.

m5trol

CGT hands down.

GT2RS only brings hp and torque to the party, this is last week's news especially 20 years from now.

FLGT

I will preface it by saying I love all 3 of them, and own both a CGT and 997 RS. Also, FWIW these are only my useless opinions, so please take it easy....

I have to think the CGT will hands down be the winner in 20 yrs. It's styling is more exotic and unique and has not been repeated. While it doesn't per se have race provenance, it was purely designed as such. Its materials are exotic and unmatched, barring 918 (maybe). Also, there is no replacement/upgrade/improved upon model, unless one stretches to include the 918. While the numbers produced are greater than the GT2RS and 4.0, there are lots of 911s out there that are close in styling and ride characteristics.

In contrast, the various 911s, be they GT2RS, and GT3RS 4.0 all look very similar to many many people. While I can tell the difference, my wife and friends can't tell the difference in the least bit, and many of them are real car aficionados. The performance and styling differences between the 3.6, 3.8 and 4.0 RS are negligible for all but hard core racers. Most folks drive on the street at 3/10ths. There is a reason the 911 basic body style has been around for ever - it works!. That being said, it loses some uniqueness.

I also don't think PTS colors will be worth a dime more in the long 20 yr term. I recently got into Porsches from the antique car market. Was mostly into Concours cars before from the 1930's-1950s. Most of my friends are into the same. Based on my experience, no one really pays a great premium for a Gullwing or a 300l roadster or Packard or Cadillac (at least not to my knowledge) b/c of color (barring a garish non-factory color). In fact, many folks couldn't care less if your car is not the original color, so long as it is an offered factory color of that year. In the long-term, condition, provenance, who restored it, maintenance records, and if any accidents primarily dictate value, not color.

So in the end, my long-term value prediction (which is historically right 49% of the time): CGT >> 4.0 > GT2RS

secretcollector

While I appreciate and like your response, especially as it gets the debate going, I have no idea why you feel the need to read into my original post and further, question a motive? I think I made it perfectly clear I'm looking for some entertaining reading when RL'ers weigh in, nothing more than that. If you want this to be like MSNBC where the commentator must disclose his holdings in a stock, I own all three cars and frankly, don't care at all what happens to their values. I just thought it would be an interesting discussion here.

Happy with my motive now?

number9ine

You make a fair point, the question wasn't meant to rankle and I'm sorry it did. I think I explain the reason I ask in my original post, which is I'd rather see these cars appreciate because of people who are enthusiastic about them, not those who are seeking an investment. It's moot because anyone who chooses such a fragile investment is probably an enthusiast anyway, or that greater fool we keep hearing about. Definitely don't want to turn this into cable news, there's enough of that over in the Politics sub-forum.

A very interesting topic indeed and I look forward to everyone's replies too.

tcsracing1

That is easy.
The 4.0L

It is the last analog manual GT 911.
It is limited production.
The 997 Mezger engines had great success in racing during their life span.
The 4.0L is the last 911 to have so much in common with the factory cup race car of the same era.
The 997GT3 was capable to drive to the 24h nurburgring event, compete and drive home successfully.

The GT2RS is brillant but may become shadowed by a future all turbo line up. Other then being manual, it will be surrounded by new turbo models.

The CGT will age well, but it never got a chance to get a racing history like that of the GT1 program. It is too bad because the engine is a true race engine that never got a chance to spread its wings on the podium. We all love super cars , but we love super cars that shined on the race track even more.

Now of course all 3 will be worth a kings ransom in 20 years and I am just nit picking them apart.

But one thing is for certain, if anybody here was ever suspect to having a time machine inorder to travel back in time to gather up the finest late model porsches of this generation it would be secretcollector!

Secretcollector in 20 years will be THE man with the finest stash of porsches of this legendary era.

997s07

Let's see, the 4.0 and the GT2RS are gimmicks to me. Both rare and both didn't add too much to their predecessors.

The CGT is a different story. If my wife wasn't so paranoid I would own one. And I would drive the hell out of it. Best car Porsche has ever produced.

997s07

No need to be abrasive.

number9ine

997s07, I think my question was a little more ad-hominem than it should have been so it's my bad. Let's get back to discussing these fine cars.

K964

I would sell a body part to own a CGT. So that's my answer and I'm sticking to it.....

993Brendan

CGT->4.0->2RS

tasman

CGT. Unique. Others variation on a theme

mooty

CGT

FLGT

A concise way to say what I was trying to say above.