driveopolis

When I bought my GT3 recently, it came with a worn down set of the Hankook Ventus V12 EVOs that the previous owner put on. This is the original, not the EVO IIs currently available. Given that the rears were worn down to the cords, I was ready to take everyone's advice and get a set of Michelin Pilot Super Sports. I excitedly put the new Michelins on yesterday and went for a drive.

To be honest -- and it PAINS me to say this after spending so much money and against conventional wisdom -- I had more fun on the ratty old Hankooks. The new Super Sports have given me a ton more rear end grip, but now the live-wire feel of the rear end is lost. It is no longer as minutely throttle steerable and the new Michelins have shifted the handling balance in favour of understeer. They will rail corners, but not in the way I like them to be railed. Steering effort has gone up, sidewall deflection seems to have gone down, but the delicate steering feel seems to have been sapped away in favour of a more wooden feeling front axle. Feels like the Michelins are both stiffer AND heavier than the Hankooks. Are they? I have no idea. It's just what I feel. There is more overall grip, but grip isn't everything for my regular sport driving.

On the old Hankooks my GT3 was frisky as a Miata. I miss my old handling balance. I want it back. I'm thinking I could tweak the anti roll bars? One notch stiffer in the rear, or alternatively one notch softer up front. What do the suspension gurus think? Tire pressures are 33 front / 39 rear as recommended by my shop.

It could be that my car with the Michelins now has the intended handling balance and previously it was 'wrong'. It's now more stable but more boring. But I've tasted the better (to me) balance and I want it back. I guess the only way to do that is with suspension, now that I'm stuck with the tires.

Any advice? I'm basically asking what suspension or alignment tweaks I could try.

Guest89

I would put on the OEM MPSC if you want more feel from the tire. MPSS is a great tire, but subtlety of feel isn't its forte.

lax01

Where was this? On the street? You are comparing brand-new, non-broken-in tires to extremely worn and broken-in tires?

Really?

Plus, where are you throttle steering on the street? You'd have to be approaching reckless speeds to feel the limits of street tires on the street...

driveopolis

This is why I was hesitant to ask this question.

You don't have to go fast to feel the nose tuck in when you lift off the throttle. You can do that at the speed limit around any corner, as long as the chassis is somewhat loaded.

I may be judging prematurely, but the balance has definitely shifted and it's not something I like. I want to know what the best way is to bring that back using suspension.

996FLT6

What are your swaybar set at now? Mike

cgfen

going 2 - 3 sizes more narrow in the rear will increase "friskiness"
on my 993 the 315s look bad-a$$
but
the 275s bring the car alive.

zanwar

My 7.2 GT3 handles very well with MPSS. It slides equally at the front and the back. Might be worth trying a full alignment and corner balance. I haven't been near my car for a while, but I believe my door sticker says 28/31 cold for tire pressures. Your pressures are what I ran in my 997.1 T4S which was a much heavier car.

zanwar

My alignment and balance

Left 629 Right 629
Left 1109 Right 986

Front toe 1mm out camber -2.5
Rear toe 4mm in camber -2.5

Front sway 1 from soft
Rear sway 1 from hard

Pressures set to 33 all round. Ballast was 180lbs. Don't remember the castor setting.

brad@tirerack.com

They definitely need to be broken in. It will be a few hundred miles before they handle best. You are used to having no tread squirm at all of the old tires, to having new tread depth tires that move much more laterally than the old ones did. It takes a bit of getting used to.

Is it cold where you are at? Ambient temperatures definitely will play in to how a summer performance tire handles. If temperatures are low where you are (50 or below), that is playing into the equation.

bmwtye

Tire pressures seem way too high. I run MPSS at 31 front and 33 rear cold pressures

CosmosMpower

You are crazy if you think MPSS are worse than crappy 110 dollar Hankooks.

lax01

And all those oils that need to be heat-cycled out of the tires...this is definitely the root cause

Sladep

Agree with Damon and lax01. Anything "different" is likely to feel "worse"; However, "different" isn't necessarily "worse", it's just new and unfamiliar. I go through this all the time with shifter karts, mx bikes, other cars, etc. It will take several hundred miles to get those MPSS scuffed in and oils cycled out. THEN, at that point, with the proper air pressure, see how they do, considering ALL the performance factors that are important to you. I've not driven Hankooks, but had several sets of Pilot Sport Cups before deciding to switch to MPSS. Yes, they give up a LITTLE bit of turn-in and responsiveness. They also give up certain near-death experiences above 20mph on wet roads, wearing out in 2,500 miles, roaring noise levels on the street, costing 30% more, only working when they are hot (how hot can you get them on the street, in traffic?). If the improvements aren't what you need, you can surely sell them to another member and get into the Hankooks at minimal expense. Let us know what you think as you put on the miles.

RamVA

You'll get them to work just fine for you.

1) Put a couple hundred miles on them.
2) Check/adjust your alignment.
3) Lower your rear pressures.
4) Drive.
5) Adjust sways to taste.

If you do all that there's no way you won't get the balance you want. That said, Super Sports don't offer a ton of feel near the limit.

Coincident

Everything on this planet requires breakin. Your opinion of the tires will only be valid after being driven for a minimum of 300-500 miles.