JoeFromPA

Hi all:

This may sound a bit odd, but I've an avid watcher of Bringatrailer.com (BAT) and use it as an excellent gauge of the market for clean, well-presented examples of different vehicles. I also use it as a good price gauge since they have excellent public data and basic analytics avaiable to show trends.

I've been surprised they have had literally 1-2 996 turbos for sale every single week for months now and last had a 997 turbo for sale almost 2.5 months ago. Specifically:

- 12 996 turbos for sale since last 997 in June - so pretty steady cadence
- 39 996 turbos for sale since beginning of 2020

By Comparison:
- 13 997s for sale in 2020 despite a similar total production volume
- 9 of those were february-april
- None since June

I realize I can look at Holt or other indy dealers and see good volume of cars in stock. But the BAT network is all about turnover, whereas indy dealers can hold inventory for a long time. So I look at BAT as representative of current market considerations, whereas indy dealers would lag that (in my head).

Anyone else feeling this or is it just me?

FYI I bought my 997tt with the intention to own it a year and then turn it over aiming to just recoup my initial purchase price and then try out a different 911, as it's been a dream of mine to experience a variety of generations and models. There's some stuff going on in my life (all good) which has made me consider selling it before that timeframe, hence I'm tuning into the market closely.

Joe

Needsdecaf

The 997 turbo market has been pretty tight. Some of you may know I've been lurking (read looking at autotempest, Top Gear, RAC Performance, Holt Motorsports, Ryan Friedman, PCar Market, PCA Mart more or less every 48 hours) in the 997.2 market for a while. At least 9 months if not more.

The market is pretty flush with cabs. Those seem to be the cars that are coming up most regularly. But .1 and .2 coupes seem to be the same old cars. Cars are listed high and sit until they reach the market price, then sell. Or they're listed at a good price and are gone in a week. Even "average" builds sell pretty quickly. I have not seen downward movement in the market due to Coronavirus as I would have thought.

chenc544

Pretty much what i have seen too. I have been shopping for one for the last 3 months or so. The last 997 turbo that I bid on in BaT was a Tip Cab with accident history and it went way higher than I thought it would have. I ended up picking up a coupe from a private seller that has it listed for sale for almost a year.

Cnair

I don't see too many .2 TTS cars listed...especially coupes

Big Swole

sub'd.

3_PDLS

Car market is super weird right now and I think that enthusiast cars are just selling like crazy, hence 997 Turbo inventory. I watch a bunch of different cars I'd like to own... manual 6-speed b7 RS4, CTS-V, f80, f10, R8 V10, F 360, Gallardo's, 997.2 GTS, 996/7 GT3, 991.2 T, 991.1 SportDesign / Aerokit and special 996's. They are all tough to find a good car right now for a good price.

My thoughts on the 996's is that there were a lot of owners that were into them for little money and now that the market on everything else is crazy and the 996 is on the rise (DeMuro did a video and it's getting other press; mentioned on VinWiki as a good deal), they are taking advantage and getting out of them to move onto something else they want.

Cnair

There is a general shortage of good used cars in the market but mostly in the lower price bracket. The rarer stuff is harder, depends on condition, mileage etc. I put my Golf R up on FB marketplace as a feeler and I got responses from 3 dealers within 30 mins.

elgato13

I feel like it’s been that way for a while now, probably better part of a year. I was browsing for 9 months before I found the car I wanted, there just weren’t a lot of them popping up. Even less if you’re looking for specific specs vs common options.

My assumption is that the 997 still holds it’s own against 991/992 in terms of looks and relative performance. The Mezger holds a special place for a lot of owners and then manual tranny’s have been worth holding on too since they aren’t easily replaced. The people who were going to quickly upgrade already did, moving that inventory into new hands but the rest still have them.

8Lug

You're seeing a lot more 996 cars for sale because prices for that generation have been going up the last 6-8 months and owners are cashing out. The 996 has reached an age where it is crossing over from being ugly (I know, this is subjective, i'm speaking general consensus) to being retro cool and once looks are no longer a factor, then the 996 TT represents one of the greatest values in the sport car market. Specialty dealers have already recognized this and this is why you're seeing them hoarding so much of the premium 996 inventory. This then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, as these dealers price these cars very high, and then private owners follow suit as average listing price comps continue to climb.

JoeFromPA

I think this is a fair and reasonable observation. I feel like the market on 996s crashed over the course of a few years and is now ticking up a bit. I've had owners genuinely tell me that the only difference between 996 and 997 is the headlights and "Would you really pay $10k more for headlights?"

But the bottom line is yes, alot of the ones I see listed were bought at the bottom and now people are selling them with 5-10k more miles, 2 years later, for $5-10k higher than their purchase price. If anything it's further cementing the bottom end of the 997 turbo as well.

What's odd to me is not what's happening with the 996, but the relative paucity of 997s given they have comparable production volumes. Are they being hoarded by owners now? I watched the 997 turbo market for 9 months before I was ready to buy and the available inventory today of the 20-50k mile 997 turbos has only decreased. Moreso on clean, near stock, and well maintained models.

lbwsandiego

I've owned both a 996 and 997 Turbo and the differences go way beyond headlights. Sure, the underlying chassis and power train are similar, but both the Interior and Exterior are huge improvements in the 997. I also found the VTGs to be more responsive and engaging to drive at less then WOT. Spend an hour driving each and you will understand why the 997s demand such a premium over the 996s.

chenc544

I would agree as well. To be honest I don't mind the headlights at all but the interior on the other hand was a bit of deal breaker for me on the 996.

JoeFromPA

Oh I didn't mean to indicate I was agreeing with that person. I like the engine, suspension, steering, exterior, interior, turbo-technology, and shifter better I don't really notice the 997 steering or braking being notably different/better than the 996 but I have minimal seat time in the 996. I just remember them being overall similar, maybe a bit less kickback/rawness in the 997 steering.

I'll say this too.....it's amazing how far Michelin tires have come in 20 years. From first gen Pilot Sports IIRC in 2000-2001 to now PS4s which ride like a dream, wear better, perform better, and are quieter.

Misplacedyankee

I have had both - there is a simplicity of the 996 interior that I liked - I put in a better head unit, but aside from that it worked well and was correct for the period. I like the lines of the 997 better, but the more rawness of my 2004 X50 was so much fun - seemed to have more character to me. Loved them all...

Ruskiy

I always loved the 996TT side profile much more than my 997TT. Front wasn’t bad and rear was great. Fantastic looking car (996) if you ask me.