whyb2nd

Reason I'm keeping my 07. Bullit proof and the last of the race breed.

avader906

They chose to develop road cars after GT1 and gradually stopped race oriented development. The end result is that company has grown, expanded sales (IMHO) somewhat using their prior image in sports/GT cars racing. It grew from family shop to.. well VW family shop. If you look at when 959 was out (vs F40) - notice how technologically the car was advanced. 997.1tt is basically the runout of all that technology - incuding the mezger. Notice where F458 is now technology wise.

To expand 911 sales and keep profit margins up (as in race car manufacturer vs mass market) they had to drop mezger engine - too expensive to produce, and if you look around 997 forums with "ohh my god it consumes 1l per 1000 miles" not adapted to the mass market. 911 brand is dilluted to the level of mass production....

I dont know what P is doing with 911 but they have few problems there.

mm450exc

+1 on that!

TT Gasman

Yes it's a mistake for the enthusiast, but not so much for the bean counters. When you can sell the car for more dollars with an engine that's half the cost why not?
It performs well and most don't know, or care, about having a true dry sump. I'd bet the majority of today's buyers lease for a few years then get something else. No need to overbuild the cars anymore.

Terry Adams

I buy a new Porsche every 10 years and average 15K miles/year.

In 6 years if I see the new engines can go the distance, I'll buy the newest model. If not sure, I'm keeping what I have till they pry the keys from my hands.

Likewise the proven Tip, which I reluctantly got because of a new left hip last year. Jury's still out on the PDK.

Land Jet

To the naysayers, I'm not convinced that the Mezger engine is better, only time will tell. Fewer moving parts may prove better in the long run, but may not. The new TurboS is definitely faster than the Mezger. I understand your enthusiasm for your platform, I own a Mezger as well, but the engineering of the new engine makes sense to me. Personally I hope it proves itself better. They said the same type of things once the 993 stopped production, and we've all seen that the 996-997 have been a huge improvement over the air cooled platform. I also see lots of non-turbo 996's, 997's, and Caymans running well at the track with the newer style engine.

Doc GTO

I wouldn't say it is the new motor that makes it faster for the most part. I'd say that the PDK with it's launch control and ability to keep boost between shifts plays the biggest role in the 0-60, 1/4, ect in stock form.

We already know based on Champion's research that the Mezger is stronger then the 9A1 motor. One example is the rods.

avader906

Well then let's revisit this topic in 25+ years. If people who own these cars dont know their history and development then why even bother....

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turb...1-engines.html

whyb2nd

Right, and the motor should perform well knowing porsche and their R&D process. I don't think I will be modding to 750HP anytime soon but it's impressive to know I can do that with stock internals. That IMHO says something about the build quality of this motor. I hear the new turbo motor cannot handle that level of enhancements.
Anyway to the layman yes, point is mute. The future + technology usually equals better. Then again there's and old saying "don't fix it if it isn't broken"

Quadcammer

show me a 9a1 turbo motor with issues. And no, not being able to take 700bhp is not an issue.

This whole "ohmigawd ita a mezger, it can nevAr lose" crap gets old.

whyb2nd

LOL, this thread wasn't intended along that line but rather how Porsche has evolved into a more main stream manufacturer. IE cutting costs to minimize product increases. Interesting that the mezger motor is in the current GT2 and GT3 RS.

avader906

Mate you need to chill or otherwise refine your superior engineering knowledge ? Do you prefer old barber's blade or daily shave with a disposable BIC ?

It's not about the issues - it's about which design is superior engineering. The answer is clear if the objective was to deliver most performance and reliability foregoing cost, fuel economy and emissions.

If the goal was to engineer new emissions efficient design, increase sales and stay profit neutral then the answer is clear as well.

You know that DFI as used in 9a1 requires different inlet valve guide oiling system to start with.

Quadcammer

Yes, they are a more mainstream company, there is no question. Porsche was almost bankrupt in the 90s due to the expensive nature of the production.

That doesn't necessarily mean the 9A1 is a worse engine. Porsche's renowned mezger had problems in basically every single iteration. Crappy chain tensioners, combustion chamber sealing, valve guides, leaks leaks leaks, coolant hoses blowing out, rattling from IMS gears, etc etc. yeah its a good sturdy motor, but its "ohmigawd" status is so overblown its ridiculous. They break just like anything else, they are expensive as hell to repair, and they are needlessly complex.

Listen Mate, you seem to think that Porsche has forgotten how to design an engine. yes, the 9A1 is cheaper to build, less complex, and has better emissions performance. But it also makes more power, has seemingly no major issues that have yet to turn up, and its been raced successfully. Not to mention it makes more power than the M64. you can stand there all day at race day saying "ohhh well I have a mezger" but it won't matter too much when you get your doors blown the hell off, Mate

Show me a problem with the 9A1. I can show you a whole host of problems with the M64.

Although your razor example is 100% asinine, I'll put my Gillette Fusion razor up there with a DE safety razor, and even a straight blade. Perhaps not quite as close, but cheaper, easier to use and maintain, etc, etc.

let me pose another useless comparison. My LED samsung vs your 20 year old Sony CRT TV

Boeing 717

Uh oh!!!! Someone put down the engine HE has in HIS car and he got his feewings hurt....... boo friggidy hoo, touchy touchy.

avader906

Please clarify below points - would help if you illustrate with facts and not delirium.

As to the issues - giving your ignorance a small hint didnt work. Dream on mate...