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I have the BW 3K price list and it does not show this upgrade.. I think that it's a stretch. More importantly, most likely the turbocharger were sent back to Germany to have a authorized BW 3K dealer do the upgrade. Not the BW-3K factory. At the very least you might have BW employees moonlighting.
I have been to the factory, I have seen the operation first hand.
Agree with Kevin....turbo is clearly in the way. What may apply to an NA engine is out the window where a turbo is concerned. Scavenging on a turbo is happening pre turbo, not post turbo so X is counterproductive in terms of providing any beneficial flow benefits particularly when comparing against a well designed system with no X. I will say that an Xpipe on a turbo appears to work well from a marketing perspective though. No denying that fact. Even from a sound perspective AM systems become subjective when evaluating which type of system may "sound better". Porsche engines have their own "trademark sound" so (to me) a good AM system is one that retains the sound characteristics of the OE engine. No point having an AM system making a Porsche engine sound like a diesel tractor or lawn mower and then convincing oneself it sounds better. Silly really....but to each his own of course.
This is a great thread. I've always wondered WHY tuners puts an "X" pipe in the exhaust for a turbo car. It always made me scratch my head as it's meant for N/A engines.
Ok, I've read most, if not all, exhaust threads on this forum and I'm still none the wiser about which way I'll go. My old Carrera had Mille Miglia mufflers and tips and it rocked. Nice sound and a tiny bit of drone that was simply managed by changing a gear.
I struggle to see the value in $6k AM exhausts (things just cost more by the time it gets down under) so I will be only buying one exhaust and that will be it (I see others here have purchased multiple exhausts)... My questions is...what is the Holy Grail of exhausts? Youtube clips have dismal sound quality.
All I want is for my TT to sound like it has some *****! (No big essay reply Speed21 - lol)
OP was about flanges, topic strayed to X pipe questions and you now ask the holy grail of AM systems? Lol. No offence but maybe read those threads again. Expectations vary.
I didn't mean to stray....I'm interested as to how one can construct an exhaust from scratch (flanges) and what the result eventually is. I'm watching...
This is a great thread. Here in NZ exhaust makers are in short supply, so a build for a 997TT would be experimental at best (and quite fun, but unsure if I want to risk it). Would be great to get a bit more info to put into a design.
The X pipe questions are also very useful. What I'm reading is that the power benefits are 0 (or even -#) but that as long as the diameter at the X point is large enough it can have a positive effect on sound (with no negative impact on power).
I didn't mean to stray....I'm interested as to how one can construct an exhaust from scratch (flanges) and what the result eventually is. I'm watching...
Yes it will be interesting to see what Gary can produce on his own. I feel cost will still need to be measured in terms of hours spent, so to make a proper comparison against an off shelf unit of equivalent design and materials.
Attached is the left side header on my most recent build up...
...The welds will get cleaned up and system ceramic coated. But as Gary said, it is not hard to make exhaust systems. The difficult part is having technical information to know the runner's lengths, port matching, collector distance from cylinder head, cross over point, etc...
Time is tight. Will make an exhaust soon. I can things fabricated very well.
Today my 99.2 Turbo made shy of 500 whp and 515 flt lbs torque on a Mustang Dyno without exhaust tuned by Cobb at the Shop in CT.
It made more power than a 997.1 with exhaust and cobb tune. The 997.2 is way more powerful than a 997.1 with simple upgrades.
the 997.2 Car made 440 WHP completely stock.
997.2 has an extra .2 liter, a little larger compressor side on the turbos, and better intercoolers. I wouldn't go so far to say they are "way more powerful". Wait until you run out of fuel pump.
997.2 has an extra .2 liter, a little larger compressor side on the turbos, and better intercoolers. I wouldn't go so far to say they are "way more powerful". Wait until you run out of fuel pump.
Calling it as I see it. The 997.2 is more refined and makes more power. 997.1 guys sell them to get 997.2 cars. I know about the fuel issue, but at 700 WHP I don't think its an issue.
Calling it as I see it. The 997.2 is more refined and makes more power. 997.1 guys sell them to get 997.2 cars. I know about the fuel issue, but at 700 WHP I don't think its an issue.
If they made one with port-injection and PDK I'd be all over it. The direct injection engine (and lack of fuel upgrades) as well as its questionable strength compared to the GT1 is enough to keep me in a 997.1.
Gary,
If you get the flanges cut, I will buy a set off of you. I'm local to you as well.
It's interesting regarding the X-pipe deal w/turbo cars.
BBI, GMG, and 911tuning all use a version of the X-pipe similar to Speedtech's for the turbos. 911tuning ran 9's with theirs.
Has anyone actually done a back to back test with proper sized/designed x-pipes vs. other designs for real world power or is it all theory at this point?
Here are some headers and exhausts I made for my kit car (I made the ones in the box for my buddy building the same car in Tx).
08-28-2014, 02:23 AM
