garychios

Who sold you this? I got a bridge to sell you. Cheap.

Domer911

that's a little mean

CincyScott

The difference in tuners come from their experience with the platform. I used UMW for my 996tt after everyone raved about it. When you talk to Kevin about his tune, you realize that a) he knows a ton about these cars and b) he tests it all on his cars first. That experience with my 996 lead me to duplicating that in my 997.

My goals for a tune aren't absolute hp, it's drivability and smoothness. If I yield 10 hp peak to another tuner that's fine, because I have all the confidence in the world that my engine is safe and that it won't surprise me (unpleasantly) down the road.

So I don't agree that they are all the same.

TB993tt

No idea WTF this means and what I've supposed to have "bought" - is it an Americanism

Read the link I gave you in the first post and see how different "tunes" perform at highish loads then get back to me about your all tunes are the same ideas

Igooz

Gary, are you suggesting that the "data files" that are flashed into the DME such as the various maps (throttle pedal angle vs fuel command, or 3D fuel and timing and boost or all the temperature/knock/ altitude/... compensation curves...) are the same amongst all tuners OR that the algorithms ("logic") between all the tuners is the same?

garychios

Yup.

And a tuner controls them. The ways its done is all the same. Unless one company has not deciphered or reversed engineered everything in the ecu and does not touch all ends of it. In the end, everything is already in the ECU and they are changing fuel, boost and timing curves. The resolution of the sensors, maps, ecu calculations per rev, knock calc etc and everything else stays the same.

COBB Tuning

This is false. There are differences between tunes. We have compared just about every flash to ours. I can assure you that power differences will show that.

In the SDI3 (997.2 Turbo ECU) for example there are around 12,000 tables, variables, constants and various other things that determine how a car runs. Controlling and understanding how the sub systems work is a tedious task. Saying they are all the same is false as there is no way that every tuner can all make the same exact table changes to the same tables.

Even just understanding how these ECU's function is a daunting task.

The strategy of the stock ECU to a Motec is vastly different. It is not as simple as fuel, timing, boost etc. They are meant to control every changing temperature, elevation, fuel quality etc while still performing without a hiccup and also helping to communicate with every other module in the car.

Hope this helps Gary. I know it may seem like they are the same but they are vastly different.

-Mitch

Igooz

Gary, the resolution of the sensors will be the same, the resolution of the A/D convertors and the PWM signals will be the same for sure...same h/w for sure...

...but there is no way that the control algorithms, and all the calibration parameters (thresholds, 3-D maps, ...) between the various tuners are the same. Just IMHO and I know many of these guys.

PS: TB993tt knows his stuff as I have other pcars and on other forums. He has a GT2 that will (almost) outrun anything that I have!

McCrazy

If you don't change any hardware it is true that the system as a whole will have the same ultimate capability. The difference (as has been pointed out multiple times now) is the programmers and what parameters they change in the software. Some can make more power and keep the engine reliable. Some make more power but less reliable. Perhaps same power and less reliable if the programmer sucks. Anything is possible.

If you choose not to believe the software skill makes a difference Gary, check out the diesel forums. Diesel tuners are a huge deal and they all have different results and reputations. The simple fact that almost all of them have multiple tunes in the same programmer so the driver can adjust his tune as he desires proves that programming makes a difference in ultimate performance, despite the hardware remaining the same.

Take a look and be enlightened: http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-7...an-review.html