redlightrich

Thanks for all the replies. I am sufficiently comfortable with taking this car. Yes I felt it was a few thou too high, but it is CPO and has over 2 years warranty left ( still under base). My struggle is used or new. New is PDK. I currently own a few cars. One is a MX5. Even though it is not so powerful I enjoy driving it. It has a lot to do with the 6 Speed trans.

Although I am not the best, I spent a lifetime learning to rev match, and a PDK will negate that skill.

So I guess I will make my decision tomorrow, and stand by it. Thank you all for giving me information to make a good decision.

Kind regards

Rich

ra34

One thing to consider is that with the speed of PDK shifting there is very minimal loss of boost. I think it fits the turbo well. That said, I prefer manual at least for a fun car. If this is a daily driver I would probably choose PDK. The center lock vs non-centerlock wheels is also a big decision for some.

Igooz: regarding the 71: I think it is code 8080. It is at the shop getting a new door striker plate so I can't confirm the code. It is original paint and has yellowed some over time.

tcsracing1

Talk to Champion Motorsports. They will tell you what they can get out of a Mezger and what they can get out of a DFI.... They have done a tonne of both...

nuclearfishin

I had this conversation with Wright Motorsport--they are currently using Mezger for all their race cars. I know the new p-cars are great, but the decision to switch to DFI is based on cost and as WMS put it, the need to show more concern to evolve toward green friendly engines. I think the next major advancement in the 911 won't be an evolutionary step but rather a revolutionary step like putting a 918-type powerplant in a 911.

aa909

The problem with this statement is that the definition of "superior" is defined by the EPA and government MPG requirements. Why do these new DFI cars have 7 gears? For "performance"? No for MPGs.

I don't have an issue with the DFI engines, however The bottom line is performance gains are not the reason Porsche switched from the mezger to the DFI engine.

speed21

I look at it this way. The new DFI engine goes better, pulls better, revs out better, sounds better...end of story. How many would really give a F about mod potential on either engines when 99% will never get near that claimed mod potential anyway. Most stop at a tune and an exhaust, or tickle up the turbos and IC's etc.. Those very few that go beyond that, usually wind up with a shagged motor anyway and have to rebuild it at great expense. Then after it's finally put back together they are so worn out and just fed up with it no longer being usable like it was they wind up selling the f/ing thing. Just look at the history on these forums alone. Its a joke. All the money hosed is never recovered and, for what? To basically F up a perfectly good car to make it essentially useless and unsaleable. If what you have isnt quick enough just buy another one that is. A Porsche Turbo starts off as a sum of its parts, best to leave it like that imo.

aa909

Paul no question that technology progresses, but I think there is a philosophical part of this discussion that goes beyond just the "new engine is faster" debate. A 2011 engine should be "faster" than a 2007 model year.

But if managing costs, EPA and MPG requirements were not a fundamental driver of the DFI engine specs would porsche have organically gone down the path of designing and implementing the 9A1 engine for the 991 TT?? We all know resources and money are finite, so if their resources and engineering know-how were focused more on performance vs managing emissions and MPGs we'd have a far "superior" engine to the 9A1 IMHO.

Why do I believe this to be true? Because the 2014 991TT has 520hp, while the 2007 997 TT has 480HP, an 8% increase in power over an 8 yr period? "superior"? Please… with a decent aftermarket exhaust and an off the shelf tune you can easily get 550hp out of the 2007 mezger and it does not tax the engine one bit.

The "progress" made with the 9A1 is that it is able to deliver excellent performance while limiting emissions and increasing MPGs. The 9A1 isn't impressive from a power or performance gain perspective, for that to be the case it would be pushing 600 hp 8 years after the 2007 TT was introduced! All IMHO of course

speed21

I dunno Art. At the end of the day the new DFI engine just goes better, in fact the whole car does (I'm talking 997tts here, not 991tts which is on another planet again). So far as lower emissions and consumption goes the new engine chews more fuel so that blows the consumption argument out the window, but it puts out more power, so the later technology can't have all been all about better consumption . The DFI is making more power from the superior combustion process alone. So the new dfi technology is doing more than just saving the planet. Maybe the later .2's 7th gear is its only means of achieving the new lower emissions and consumption criteria but so far as the power of the engine goes it has more than the Mezger stock. Hard to argue that one....although some will always try lol. And so far as the other argument goes: well pop an exhaust and a tune on mezger and it catches up/blows the DFI! ..but,hey then do the same to the DFI and you are ahead of the tuned Mezger again. So... all things equal again DFI comes out ahead in the performance stakes. Understandable I guess after all Porsche don't make em worse....well not from what I've seen or driven so far. Just sayin..

93ls1rx7

I disagree. Porsche doesn't care about making them better or worse as much as they care about making them with less expensive parts to increase their already ridiculous profit margins.

Is the car faster because of PDK? Sure.

Has technology improved the combustion process? Sure.

How does the long block compare between the DFI and the Mezger? No definitive evidence either way but the fact race teams still use a much more expensive Mezger leads me to believe that it is a "better" long block all else equal.

Will the Mezger hold value or have more value down the road? No one knows but Porsche lovers always hold a sentimental value. My gut tells me in about 10-15 years the older Mezger will be more valuable than the 997.2 DFI cars but these aren't Garage queen Ferraris, enjoy them. They made to many of them for them to ever be truely collectable.

As a 2008 TT owner I would tell you I would swap to a 997.2 with PDK any day even with even an additional 20k out of pocket. Living in Germany I get the chance to enjoy the autobahn but high speed runs get old fast even when they are legal. Going through the twisters is only fun if you are way over the speed limit...when I return to the states, most of the "fun" I will have will be stop light to stop light or roll on fun where the PDK is so much faster it isn't even fair.

aa909

I have to agree. From a performance perspective the PDK advancement has been more of a leap than the move from the Mezger to the 9A1. But since the 9A1 is a universal engine in multiple Porsche models it has done more for their bottom line.

But don't get me started on all the dual clutch stuff. I still rather row the gears when it comes to my non-commuter cars

tcsracing1

The Mezger is detuned. The stock mufflers and factory tune alone restrict it to have lower hp then the DFI. This is why it takes well to modifications whereas the DFI is designed around emissions friendly exhaust to run correctly.
In regards to installing an exhaust and a tune on both cars with the DFI coming out on top is false.
You can only tune a DFI to a certain extent.
The Mezger can take a tune that would eat the DFI.

garychios

You guys are talking out of your *** about detuned etc. I know Magnus racing, they race everything that comes out new from Porsche. They don't run an engine because its this or that. They and most real race teams run "New" Engines from Porsche and they race Lemans and what not.. Not what was put out 5 years ago. A
Now I know they don't run turbos, but just making a point.


DFI in the racing world is superior as well. So is drive by wire and other technologies which increase, emissions, traction control, fuel control, knock control and more. PDK is also awesome and so is so many new technologies coming out are far superior to what was out 7 years ago..

Also I am seeing faster 997.2 cars than 997.1 cars with the same mods. 997.1 cars with a basic tune and exhaust make 30 whp less than a 997.2 on same boost and timing. Facts. Not wanna be fiction. Call any shop. Most of you guys garage these cars anyway, and even less go to the track.

Same month I bought mine, it went to the track. Just did Cobb, AMS IC's and AWE exhaust. Will make 600 wheel. Let me see a 997.1 do that. Already 100 wheel more than factory just with the ECU.

nuclearfishin

Magnus racing and the Flex-box crew race with a Mezger engine. Just saying...

speed21

This 9A1 vs Mezger debate is entertaining if nothing else. Fact: stock 9A1 DFI dfi combustion technology produces more power and is more efficient than efi. With DFI the combustion temps are lower so in turbocharged applications you can do more with boost than an efi mezger which needs to offset the higher combustion temps from adding boost. The 9A1 DFI produces more power per cc, is more efficient as a performance engine, and is simply more technologically advanced as an engine on a number of fronts, a clear step forward on all counts. i.e :9A1 has 40% less components than Mezger making for less complications/problems, weighs less, the new design allowing a lower center of gravity in chassis. All clear positive steps forward.

The age old argument the Mezger is tried proven and tested and the 9A1 isn't, is getting old along with the 997.1 platform in general.

9A1 has no history of premature failures least of all suffering from the same problems mezger suffers (i.e IMS shaft failures etc) note: 9A1 has been in the market in large numbers for some years now...purring away reliably, fuss free with better performance and all round efficiency.
Sure, race teams will always work with what they are accustomed to and, what they can get parts readily for at a cheaper price (usually for when it pops from over-tuning it without replacing the "rods" and other hard parts lol).

If there are any comparative weaknesses between both engines it is purely in the rods of 9A1 which are marginally lighter. Like big deal! How many tune the engine to a level which will bend rods anyway?...and those that do usually regret it at one point and/or sell the car off for reasons previously mentioned i.e it becomes a pig to drive beyond short blasts, becomes garage queen accordingly.
The whole Mezger is "detuned" story and 9A1 is "tuned out to the max stock" story is pure unadulterated fantasy, evidently based on die hard emotion with zero supportive facts beyond the weaker rods story (which is a thin argument at best).
Die hard's raving on about Mezger's racing history/pedigree as if they are driving around with a full blown Lemans race engine under their hood is laughable, as fact is a proper Mezger race engine has so many different up-rated internal hard and core parts than the street Mezger engine (save the basic bare block) it may as well be called a different engine model, yet certain owners of the street Mezger claim the same status as the race variant LMAO! You guys crack me up. Seriously. Who are you trying to fool? I mean just look at the differences in the pistons, rods, oil pump, crankshaft, valves, springs, camshafts etc..so why bother embarrassing yourselves by even comparing the two variants! Oh, but the block is the same lol so yup it's the same engine lol
I think the best cure for some guys is to actually get the keys to a new 9A1 car and take it out for a day, then get back into .1 mezger and deal with the fact the new car is simply better performing everywhere and not just down to the pdk box. Times have moved on boys and to much greener pastures....

PS. Forgot to add a DFI engine in general is far more costly to manufacture than a conventional EFI due to the requirement of more robust components, which kind of blows the argument that the engine is weaker and Porsche changed to the DFI to save money on production lol.

550bryan

Regardless of all the other arguments about the merits of the two engines, the direct injection on the DFI engine makes a big difference in performance and efficiency.