Possibility that 997.1 and .2 turbo prices will fall significantly
12-10-2015, 11:19 PM
#32
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I have a friend who has a 76 targa I've been trying to get to sell to me for 18 months, I'm trying to go older, smaller and more mechanical. The new cars just don't appeal to me as much, I'd rather go slower and have to work more than have the car fix all my errors. I waited til '10 to get my gt3 for the extra psm and it was my favorite car and wished I hadn't sold it. I'll keep my '09 turbo forever, or until that '76 whaletail comes around.
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12-10-2015, 11:44 PM
#33
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http://www.autoscout24.com/results?c...=&adage=&seal=
Filter through the 21 pages to find a wide variety of 997 Turbos available in the EU.
Filter through the 21 pages to find a wide variety of 997 Turbos available in the EU.
12-11-2015, 03:01 AM
#34
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12-11-2015, 09:00 AM
#35
Three Wheelin'
Funny code red, I would too. Still hoping to find that perfect '09 over here.
Btw, when you know how to use the search feature on autoscout the filtering is all done for you
Here is the list of all manual coupe's for sale in EU. A grand total of 18.
However, since these listings are free many do not even bother to remove car after it sold. If you look you can find a very nice average mileage white '09 but that one sold already since late summer.
http://www.autoscout24.com/results?c...=&adage=&seal=
On Mobile.de there are more including several double listings or other cars like GT2 etc.
http://suchen.mobile.de/auto/search....e&pageNumber=2
Very small pool and almost nothing if low mileage is of importance.
Btw, when you know how to use the search feature on autoscout the filtering is all done for you
Here is the list of all manual coupe's for sale in EU. A grand total of 18.
However, since these listings are free many do not even bother to remove car after it sold. If you look you can find a very nice average mileage white '09 but that one sold already since late summer.
http://www.autoscout24.com/results?c...=&adage=&seal=
On Mobile.de there are more including several double listings or other cars like GT2 etc.
http://suchen.mobile.de/auto/search....e&pageNumber=2
Very small pool and almost nothing if low mileage is of importance.
Last edited by TT-911; 12-11-2015 at 10:03 AM. Reason: added mobile.de link
12-12-2015, 01:47 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
Came online last week but pictures finally added today :
2009 black/black Porsche cert. with 43.600km , asking €89,800 ($98k)
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/de...&pageNumber=1#
Has PCCB which is great but cars like that sold for 15K less this past summer.
If you like your turbo and enjoy driving/looking at it I would keep it. In some years you just might be able to trade for a brand new one (if you so desire).
Owners of the 993 variant can do so already today. Low milers are being given money on top.
2009 black/black Porsche cert. with 43.600km , asking €89,800 ($98k)
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/de...&pageNumber=1#
Has PCCB which is great but cars like that sold for 15K less this past summer.
If you like your turbo and enjoy driving/looking at it I would keep it. In some years you just might be able to trade for a brand new one (if you so desire).
Owners of the 993 variant can do so already today. Low milers are being given money on top.
12-12-2015, 04:16 PM
#38
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The new 3.0L "Carrera" with twin turbos and 370hp is such an awesome base model 911 offering.
With the S package, the 420hp is amazing. Both available with manual transmissions. Wow!
At this point I would be happy with a new carrera every 3 years as my daily for the rest of my life.
However,
The 997TT is lower production, Shorter wheel base, larger 3.6L with 480hp and has the hydraulic steering.
The body size and steering of a 997 make for a different experience that the 991 is arguably lacking...
The 997TT is also daily driver friendly.
Given the current price point of a pre owned 997.1TT, it is an attractive alternative to a 991TT (no available manual) and a 991.2C4S ($125k+ MSRP). Make no wonder resales have been strong lately on the 997TT.
So no, the prices of 997TT will not fall as result of everything going turbo. People are actually looking for them given the value they offer compare to new offerings. But they need to maintian this value to be attractive. They need to remain below the price of not only the 991TT but now the 991.2C4S as well.
IMO, I think in the long, long term, the 997TT resale will come out on top of a 991.2C4S and any other future comparable 911s. But again, that is a long time away.
Ultimately the question to ask ourselves today:
For a daily driver, Would we take a low mile pre owned 2013 Turbo S, or a new 2016 991.24S given the same price point?
With the S package, the 420hp is amazing. Both available with manual transmissions. Wow!
At this point I would be happy with a new carrera every 3 years as my daily for the rest of my life.
However,
The 997TT is lower production, Shorter wheel base, larger 3.6L with 480hp and has the hydraulic steering.
The body size and steering of a 997 make for a different experience that the 991 is arguably lacking...
The 997TT is also daily driver friendly.
Given the current price point of a pre owned 997.1TT, it is an attractive alternative to a 991TT (no available manual) and a 991.2C4S ($125k+ MSRP). Make no wonder resales have been strong lately on the 997TT.
So no, the prices of 997TT will not fall as result of everything going turbo. People are actually looking for them given the value they offer compare to new offerings. But they need to maintian this value to be attractive. They need to remain below the price of not only the 991TT but now the 991.2C4S as well.
IMO, I think in the long, long term, the 997TT resale will come out on top of a 991.2C4S and any other future comparable 911s. But again, that is a long time away.
Ultimately the question to ask ourselves today:
For a daily driver, Would we take a low mile pre owned 2013 Turbo S, or a new 2016 991.24S given the same price point?
12-15-2015, 01:36 PM
#39
I think resale for the 997.1 turbo may increase. But the turbo s, tip tronic, and PDK turbo are all going down the tube. 991.1 turbo and turbo s are now trading around the 120-130s. The turbo s last year was asking around that range. Say what you will, but the vast majority of turbo S buyers rather have the 991 over the 997.
Then the buyers who want crazy stupid HP, buy the mezger since the .2 can't handle it. So with porsche increasing the HP on their own by so much, the 997.2 will plummet from pressure of the 991.1 going down.
Either way I'm glad I sold my 997.2 tts when I did. Next up is either GT3 or GT4. Much safer from depreciation and more enjoyable cars. The 991 GT3 I drove was in every way better than my TTS short of not being as fast. As far as the steering, if they put the steering in the GT3 in every car? You won't be able to tell the difference between hydraulic and electric.
Then the buyers who want crazy stupid HP, buy the mezger since the .2 can't handle it. So with porsche increasing the HP on their own by so much, the 997.2 will plummet from pressure of the 991.1 going down.
Either way I'm glad I sold my 997.2 tts when I did. Next up is either GT3 or GT4. Much safer from depreciation and more enjoyable cars. The 991 GT3 I drove was in every way better than my TTS short of not being as fast. As far as the steering, if they put the steering in the GT3 in every car? You won't be able to tell the difference between hydraulic and electric.
12-15-2015, 06:57 PM
#40
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The OP asked a simple question: "Has anybody considered the frightening thought that maybe ALL 997 turbo prices will decline now that 2017 Carrera's are going to have twin turbos?" It's telling that some individuals who provide their assessments about future 997 Turbo values have offered evidence from selectively filtered search results from online marketplaces. That evidence reflects personal preferences--e.g., PCCBs, transmission type, mileage, and current price--in order to support a forgone conclusion about the future market values of 997 Turbos. Since the evidence has been tailored to support a particular conclusion (that is, values of 997 Turbos will increase), the inference about 997 Turbos' projected market values is flawed by a basic material fallacy and reveals no more than subjective preference and hopeful speculation. This type of careless inference is akin to claiming that a performance improvement is necessarily connected with a revised part number.
The market value of 997 Turbos may increase, certainly, but that conclusion can't be sustained rationally by citing evidence culled to prove a conclusion which is already believed and accepted. Links to a limited number of cars scattered randomly don't provide compelling proof for a sensible judgment.
The market value of 997 Turbos may increase, certainly, but that conclusion can't be sustained rationally by citing evidence culled to prove a conclusion which is already believed and accepted. Links to a limited number of cars scattered randomly don't provide compelling proof for a sensible judgment.
12-15-2015, 07:47 PM
#41
The OP asked a simple question: "Has anybody considered the frightening thought that maybe ALL 997 turbo prices will decline now that 2017 Carrera's are going to have twin turbos?" It's telling that some individuals who provide their assessments about future 997 Turbo values have offered evidence from selectively filtered search results from online marketplaces. That evidence reflects personal preferences--e.g., PCCBs, transmission type, mileage, and current price--in order to support a forgone conclusion about the future market values of 997 Turbos. Since the evidence has been tailored to support a particular conclusion (that is, values of 997 Turbos will increase), the inference about 997 Turbos' projected market values is flawed by a basic material fallacy and reveals no more than subjective preference and hopeful speculation. This type of careless inference is akin to claiming that a performance improvement is necessarily connected with a revised part number.
The market value of 997 Turbos may increase, certainly, but that conclusion can't be sustained rationally by citing evidence culled to prove a conclusion which is already believed and accepted. Links to a limited number of cars scattered randomly don't provide compelling proof for a sensible judgment.
The market value of 997 Turbos may increase, certainly, but that conclusion can't be sustained rationally by citing evidence culled to prove a conclusion which is already believed and accepted. Links to a limited number of cars scattered randomly don't provide compelling proof for a sensible judgment.
12-15-2015, 10:20 PM
#42
With 997 GT3 prices getting out of reach, I think the next viable option for a bulletproof Mezger-powered widebody manual car is the 997.1 Turbo. Prices for them here in Canada haven't dropped in 3 years.
12-16-2015, 02:18 AM
#44
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I think resale for the 997.1 turbo may increase. But the turbo s, tip tronic, and PDK turbo are all going down the tube. 991.1 turbo and turbo s are now trading around the 120-130s. The turbo s last year was asking around that range. Say what you will, but the vast majority of turbo S buyers rather have the 991 over the 997.
Then the buyers who want crazy stupid HP, buy the mezger since the .2 can't handle it. So with porsche increasing the HP on their own by so much, the 997.2 will plummet from pressure of the 991.1 going down.
Then the buyers who want crazy stupid HP, buy the mezger since the .2 can't handle it. So with porsche increasing the HP on their own by so much, the 997.2 will plummet from pressure of the 991.1 going down.
12-16-2015, 02:26 AM
#45
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The OP asked a simple question: "Has anybody considered the frightening thought that maybe ALL 997 turbo prices will decline now that 2017 Carrera's are going to have twin turbos?" It's telling that some individuals who provide their assessments about future 997 Turbo values have offered evidence from selectively filtered search results from online marketplaces. That evidence reflects personal preferences--e.g., PCCBs, transmission type, mileage, and current price--in order to support a forgone conclusion about the future market values of 997 Turbos. Since the evidence has been tailored to support a particular conclusion (that is, values of 997 Turbos will increase), the inference about 997 Turbos' projected market values is flawed by a basic material fallacy and reveals no more than subjective preference and hopeful speculation. This type of careless inference is akin to claiming that a performance improvement is necessarily connected with a revised part number.
The market value of 997 Turbos may increase, certainly, but that conclusion can't be sustained rationally by citing evidence culled to prove a conclusion which is already believed and accepted. Links to a limited number of cars scattered randomly don't provide compelling proof for a sensible judgment.
The market value of 997 Turbos may increase, certainly, but that conclusion can't be sustained rationally by citing evidence culled to prove a conclusion which is already believed and accepted. Links to a limited number of cars scattered randomly don't provide compelling proof for a sensible judgment.
Although we can try to take into account the certain changes of each model year and predict wheather or not it will have future significance and thus value.
Kinda like real estate and stock speculation.... We are always looking for something that might help us better predict the future values.
It is a funny bi-product of the collector car world