CodeRed

I would always choose a true dry over "integrated" sump...just a cost cutting measure for .2 DF

Southpaw

Effectiveness seems to be the same. Neither are experiencing oil starvation issues during hard cornering. The harder cornering 997.2 gets by just fine.
So if you'd rather have it just to say you have it (and never need it) then I suppose that's a reason to want it. We don't know if it's truly cost cutting and only Porsche knows this, not anybody here. Developing a new engine is very expensive for them and if the Mezger is the be all, end all, why didn't they just keep it in the newer, much more expensive RS models and hike up the price further to offset it? Maybe it's for simplicity reasons..

We all say we like cars that are more simple and raw, yet when the DFI is more simple with less moving, complex parts, we bash it.....

CodeRed

still a wet sump...my opinion remains unchanged

alexb76

Mezger definitely more costly to produce. Porsche even admitted while introducing the new 991 GT3 engine, said economically we couldn't build Mezger engines anymore at scale and sell it for the same price. There's a lot more parts in common between Carrera, Turbo and GT3 models now. All leads to lower costs across the board. Mezger was a completely different engine than Carrera engines.

Southpaw

Oh I never claimed to know for sure which was more expensive. But if this is the case, then lower costs, reliable, more efficient, faster... Win/win/win/win for Porsche.

I get it though, there's always the camp in favor of romanticism and nostalgia above this. To me, I can't buy something just for a name and just because it's more expensive to produce. Give me the more kickass car.

Again, I've had both... Both are fantastic cars and we each have our own reasoning. I went with the more rare and faster car above nostalgia and a name. Reading an article about the strength of the DFI internals sealed the deal for me.

Catorce

It has nothing to do with cost when you look at Mezger vs DFI. In fact, I am the only one on the planet who is currently producing the Mezger engine case casting; not even Porsche is making it anymore. As to cost, the Mezger case is far more simple and I can sell one for 5K. No way you are selling a DFI case for that little...it will cost way more.

The real reason the Mezger has fallen out of favor is fuel economy, plain and simple. Politicians set fuel economy standards which are impossible to achieve using existant technology, and car manufacturers scramble to make it happen.

The DFI motor is more fuel efficient, period, end. Similarly, the change from NA to turbo across all model lines is motivated by fuel economy.

If the Mezger motor was an inferior engine from a performance standpoint, it wouldn't have been around since 1965....clearly it is the superior engine. However, it reached the end of its useful life when fuel economy was thrown into the mix.

Pretty simple actually.

skyak

What was the last Porsche production car with a Mezger?

Catorce

^ pretty sure it was the 2009 model year across the board, then after that the 997 GT3s had them until the 991 was introduced. Therefore the last production mezger car would have been the 2013 997GT3

alexb76

I don't think it's the name or nostalgia, Mezger was the basis for all Cup cars (obviously without turbo) and you could swap cup parts plug and play. So there's a basis for the nostalgia. Now the previous post about fuel Econ is spot on. That's the main reason for all the changes. My question was mostly around how DFI has fared and it looks like it's been OK but with some engine blow up issues (one post above).

CodeRed

How many of us bought a turbo for fuel economy reasons? Over regulation caused the demise of the Mezger...it will be electric self driving cars next.

white997

Mezger is the most famous/race proven Porsche engine of all time. The DFI costs porsche half (as i was told by a porsche engineer) to produce.

Catorce

Not a correct comparison. An individual DFI motor is FAR more expensive than an individual Mezger motor.

HOWEVER - Porsche invested heavily in DFI technology across its model line, and now it shares a common platform across all 911s, therefore making it cheaper en masse than Mezger, but only because it uses this engine in all its cars.

Southpaw

Haven't heard of any blowing up...not saying it's never happened because ALL engines blow up when the perfect storm occurs. But it's not a common issue.. actually haven't seen or heard of any common issues and I know a lot of modded ones around the world. It's actually still very early in it's infancy in terms of aftermarket and new things are coming out each month..faster and faster ones are being built. We've seen threads here with some very fast ones with the most basic modifications...and reliably. There are some common issues with the Mezger and I'm not saying there won't be any common issues with the 9A1 but as of now, I haven't seen any reoccurring posts about common issues.

I'm just providing some info I learned since there seems to be so much misinformation (some from people who can't even spell Mezger). Just searching a few years back and you'll see some misinformation being repeated and drilled into noobs. When it first came out, people here were saying it'll blow up with a tune, that was proven untrue...then people were saying the internals are weaker, then that was also proven untrue ( https://www.cobbtuning.com/porsche-9...g-rod-testing/ ) ..so now, people hang on to race heritage...but now the 9A1 is beginning it's own racing heritage. It doesn't have the time behind it as the Mezger does yet.

I'm not against the Mezger..I know my posts may sound like it. I had a 997.1 turbo and it was a fantastic car. I simply wanted something faster without extensive modifications and wanted it done reliably with the least amount of mods. I actually want to add another Mezger sooner than later but in a more pure form.... 997 GT3.

Quadcammer

Do you have evidence of this?

My understanding was that the parts cost on the DFI may be about the same, but the man hours to assemble the mezger was so much longer given all the individual parts (I'm convinced the whole thing is just a mess of bolts) that the labor cost was what cost porsche too much.

squid42

Porsche managed to do the switch to direct injection without having major issues like carbon buildup pop up. They were doing a lot better than pretty much everybody else, including other VAG brands.