Mattrsupplyco

I posted this in the general forum but figured this would be the better place for advice.


I’m about to pull the trigger on a Porsche Boxster 986, and I luckily have two options locally to me for the year 2000 variant. Both are Arctic Silver with black interior. Prices are Canadian:

Stock 2000 Boxster - $11,500
230,XXX KM

Boxster S on H&R coilovers - $14,000
130,XXX KM

Both are issue free, recently serviced. But both have not had the IMS changed. The S was listed for $18,000 but I’ve talked him down to $14,000 as he needs to move the car before winter. And it’s been listed for 57 days.

Which one should I consider? Is the $2500 increase worth it for the S with lower KM and lowered? Are there issues with lowering these?


Any advice would be ideal. This is my first Porsche!

Mattrsupplyco

Is there anything else to consider? 5 vs 6 speed, brake / rim size differences.

ride quality on coilovers vs stock etc.

HartyWags

I would ask you these questions as there is no right answer.
1) What would you prefer?
2) What are your goals for the car? Is it just a daily for fun around town driving or are you a more spirited driver?
2) Is money a concern?
3) Do you have an extra 2k for repairs?
4) Are you going to do a PPI?
5) As part of the PPI are you going to take a look at the oil filter?
5) Do both car have similar options?

I just bought a 2001 Boxster S and for me personally I would not buy a base model. The bigger engine, the larger brakes, additional cooling are worth the money.

For the coil overs it is less about H&R vs stock but how old they are and what the ride feels like. The one I bought has original OEM still install after 117K. It rides fine but you can tell they are old as they don't react as fast as you would expect.

For the IMS if it was me I would replace it just to be safe, but most likely these cars have the dual row bearings which are much better and lower failure rate. The single row started in 2001 and during that year the car could have either.

Baxter_Boxster

I bought a 2000 base with 5-speed manual with 55K miles just a few weeks ago for $8K USD. Only $8K because it has a rebuilt title. Was in a wreck in 2017 and I had pretty good documentation on what actually happened to it.

It's my first Boxster and I'm really glad I went for a 986. I could afford to buy something much more expensive, but I wanted the experience of one of the early cars. I've only put 500 miles on it, but I have a very good feel for what this car has to offer. I would describe the power as adequate. It's very smooth power delivery and the engine loves to rev up in the higher rpm's. The sound of the engine is sublime. At highway speeds, it cruises nicely, even with the top down.

Long term this is not quite enough power for me. 250hp seems about right for me.

Before buying this one, I drove a 981S MT with only 8Kmiles on it, and it was perfect in every way. Too perfect? A bit too much power perhaps? What I mean by that is I can drive my 986 much harder without going so fast, and there's an enjoyment in doing that that I didn't feel with the 981S. I am more engaged with the driving experience in my 986 Base than I was in the 981S. Put another way - I would have to drive the 981S at higher speeds to get the same thrill I do with my 986 at lower speeds. Having said all that, I think a 981 or 981S is in my future. In my opinion, if there's a roadster to put in my garage for the long term, a MT 981S is the one. As the years go by, that car will be coveted more and more.

Greg

Hasdrubal

Between those two I'd take the S on mileage alone, the only downside to them for me is that the clutch pedal is much heavier. I've only driven one of each, before buying my base model, but the S clutch was heavy enough that I thought the return spring was broken, and others online with more experience than me have confirmed it's normal to be significantly heavier. I probably would have gotten used to it, but it was the stiffest pedal I've ever come across.

mikefocke

Owned both. 2.5 '99 and 3.2 '01S. Not a significant difference. Would I buy a 240k car? No. Would I rather have the $ and spend it on all the classic maintenance items, suspension, alignment, AOS, coils, etc and maybe even the IMS. But then I came from 1.3L and 1.6L Alfas and a 914 with a VW engine which I drove harder than I ever did my Boxsters.

I spent $3k in 20 years ago money within a month after buying my second Boxster just to bring it up to my standards and it was a lots younger car than either of these. And that didn't include the IMS which really wasn't a known possible update then.

I'd drive the base (it is a 2.7) and see if it was something I'd want to drive for a couple of years. Look for maintenance records. Look at the tire dates and tread depth. Do a PPI from a Porsche expert.

Mattrsupplyco

Thank you everyone for your insight!

price isn’t a concern. I’ve budgeted 20k on this purchase so the 14k on the S would leave a lot of room for any fixes.

the original owner said everything that was wrong with the vehicle has been addressed, he’s sending me the list of things before I see it this weekend. I’ve also contacted my local Porsche mechanic to see if they are free to do a PPI.

the IMS I assumed was hard to check and if it was checked it should just be replaced. But that’s a 4k job on something that has less than a 5% failure rate. 130,000km I figured if it was to go it would have by now so I may just risk it.

is there anything I should look out for specifically when I check it myself ? Before the PPI?

HartyWags

You can't directly check the ISMB without pulling it and if you do that you might as well replace it. I believe that the single row bearing started in 2001 so 2000 model would have a dual row which is much lower rate of failure. A general check would be to pull the oil filter and look in all the groves for any metal debris. If you see little bits or glitter it could be from the IMS, only concern is to could also be from something else. This should also be part of you PPI, it is easy and will only cost $27 bucks for a new OEM filter. The problem is no one knows the cause of failure that makes it hard to diag. There are lots of possible causes.

At 130k miles you totally need to change the Variocam chain tension pads. These are a know weak point on the M96 engines. I just replaced mine on the 2001 Boxster S with 117k and they were totally shot. If they fail you can lose timing and grenade the engine. There are two ways to indirectly diag this issue. One is to check the computer for cam shaft deviation errors, and the other is to check the oil filter or the oil pan for brown bits of plastic which will be present as the pads break apart from the chains.

Did you get a carfax report? They are good to have, while the don't cover everything they help just to confirm everything. Do these before you go to the PPI

1) Drive around and make sure all the gears are working and shifting is good.
1a) Note the feel of the ride. It should be firm and tight. If the car feel flat or feels a little worn out, not reacting as fast as you expect it to. This means you will need new coilovers. On mine they felt worn out but looking at them they are fine, no leaks or any outward signs of failure. Just think about that as replacements are from $2,500-3,000.00. I will add that for now I left the original OEM ones in till spring of 2024 as they are not bad just worn, you might have the same situation. They are fine just maybe not ideal.
2) Check that the windows drop down correctly when the door handle is pull but the door is not opened. You want to make sure the glass drops so it does not catch the roof. Reason is that this fix can be costly.
3) Check the top make sure it goes full up and down without issues.
4) Check the radio make sure it works.
5) Check the clutch pedal and make sure it does not feel worn out, ie the pedal is nearly to the top before it engages. this could be a sign of a worn clutch.
6) Check both the head lights and tail light very closely for micro cracks. This will happen if it sits in the hot sun for years. I got burned on my 911, the taillights had to be replaced for like $2,500.00
7) Buy a paint thickness meter and check all the fenders for any signs of repairs. Anything over 4-6mm could be a sign of a repair or repaint.
8) When you start the car assuming it is a cold start watch the tail pipe and look for any white smoke beyond what your would expect to see.
9) Listen to the engine for any ticking sounds and any chain rattle.
10) Check the coolant res tank and see if there is any "cream" like liquid in there, could be a sign of oil mixing with coolant.
11) Check the tires date codes just to see how old they are. Not a big issue but if they are 4+ years old just budget for new tires even if they look fine.
12) Check the rotors and see if there is a lip at the outer edge. If the lip is noticeable then expect to have to replace them and pads. If they rotors have a lot of groves then replacement is most likely needed.

These are the stuff that will help you decide if you want to go and pay for a PPI. Beyond the normal PPI stuff I would highly recommend the oil filter check it could save you from a major issue. Of course look at all the faults that are in the car computer, and if the dealer can do a realtime diag have them do that. I found that a lot of Porsche dealers won't do a PPI anymore unless you are buying from them or you own the car.

Not trying to scare you but just help you to be informed. I do all the work myself so I'm willing to take some risk. But if you have to use a Porsche dealer or some other indy shop the costs might not be worth it. For example I spent about 2K on new IMS, clutch kits, variocam cam timing pads, oil change, gear oil, fuel filter, and bunch of small stuff. This would have cost me 7K at the indy and over 9K at the dealer.

Mattrsupplyco

thank you so much for taking the time to document these checkpoints!

I called Porsche and they don’t have an opening for a PPI for weeks. So I found a local euro garage that specializes in Audi/porsche and they are willing to check the car for me.

I’ll do the first inspection based on your list and if it passes I’ll do the oil filter and have the mechanics check the items I’m unable to.

HartyWags

This is the paint meter I used.

For item 9 you just want to make sure there is no loud ticking sounds. This could point to failing or weak lifters. Maybe not a deal breaker as they can be replaced but there are a lot of them and Porsche OEM cost $70.00 bucks each. When I replaced my variocam chain pads I had the cams out and checked each one, no sign of issues. So most likely not going to be an issue for you. The key is just to listen to the engine and note anything odd.

For the radio I just tossed that in as when I bought mine the radio was not working correctly. I just assumed getting a used one would be cheap but turns out they range from 250-350 bucks. I plan on replacing with the official porsche PSSM+ at some point but that costs $1500.00 bucks
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...=c&SVSVSI=0785

Also check the condition of the coverable top, look for tears in the fabric, and really look at the plastic window. Check for cracking or signs that it has been replaced. Mine was cut out and a new one put in very poorly. All years before 2003 I think have the plastic, but newer models move to the smaller glass window. There is an upgrade kit for about $850.00 that will get you a glass window with heat.
https://www.autotopsdirect.com/Porsc...07-box-030.htm

For my PPI it took about 3 hours and they did the following
1) General look over the car
2) Check all the suspension making sure there are not failed joints and that it is tight. I asked to focus on this as parts can be costly.
3) Check the computer
3a) Check for cam shaft deviation.
3b) Check for misfires.
3c) If possible check for over revs, assuming these are manuals. I believe these gen cars only have two categories and you want to know if there are any stage two and how long ago did they happen. Over revs happen if you shift incorrectly into a gear to low for the speed of the car and push the engine over the rev limit. This is a big to check for in the 911 models, not so sure how much in the 986 side, but it is good to check.
4) Drive the car around and see if they notice anything. This is were they noted that suspension was original and would need replacing at some point
5) Check the oil filter, this is where I had a little glitter that we believe was from the IMS. There was no metal bits but they did find the brown plastic from the pads. This helped me get 2K off the car.
6) Pulled the spark plugs and had them check for bore score, none found. from my research this is not an issue on the 2002 and older cars in general. But I did it anyways because if it has it you have to walk away no questions.

Mattrsupplyco

I just got off the phone with the owner. He has 3 Porsches, and has been buying and selling them for over 10 years - one is a 1989 911! He's selling the Boxster as he needs to thin the herd.

IMS was not swapped, But filter checked every oil change for debris, and no issues as of yet. Tires are new, Coilovers are 2 years old, Suspension is tight but supple. He says it drives better than stock.

The only issues are a minor 5mm crack in the plastic window, the front bumper was replaced and repainted - and he mentioned the track arms need to be replaced - but he's doing it this evening.

One of the sun visors is missing the mirror cover - the rest of the interior that had wear issues has been replaced with NOS parts, He said its clean!

I'm doing an inspection tomorrow - but based on the conversation with him, he's an enthusiast and a proud Porsche owner. This is looking promising!

HartyWags

That is good news. Glad he is checking the filter every time, ask how often he changes the oil. Originally Porsche had is set at every 20K which is insane, they lowered it to 10K. Most people now suggest every 5k to help avoid wear on the IMSB and other bearing. Now that you know you don't need new coils or tires, you can spring for the $850 top upgrade which I told is awesome, no more plastic window. Don't forget to ask for the service records, every good Porsche owner should have a binder with everything in it.

Don't worry about the front bumper repaint, just look at it to make sure it looks good. Just ask why and when it was done. if it looks good and it has been a few years you will be fine. Don't forget to ask about if the variocam chain tension pads have been replaced. here is a detailed link to the issue so you know what you are asking about
https://fifthgear.biz/fifthgear-blog...-to-the-story/

Mine were just like that, deep groves in one of the pads on each side. The pair of pads cost around $30 per side. I did the work myself and it is simple jobs but is a ton of labor. I did mine with the engine still in on only jack stands just to make it that much harder

HartyWags

$14,000.00 Canadian is about $10,300.00 US. That is a good price for an S with upgraded suspension. Assuming everything else checks out and you don't really need to do any major repairs you are getting a good deal. Good Luck!

HartyWags

problem solved
Visor replacement

Mattrsupplyco

I’m actually going to talk him down to $12,000. He seems reasonable and I know he needs to move the vehicle. And it was listed for 2 months without selling.

I’ll see if he agrees! I’ll have cash in hand so it will be a hard offer to refuse