Doug Hillary

Hi,
this is the latest Used Oil Analysis result from my Porsche Boxster (986) 2.7ltr Tiptronic

Engine data
M9622 & Tiptronic @ 111650 kms (69335miles)

Operation over 14598kms (9065 miles) - 14+ months
A number of long high speed trips (80%) and a small amount (20%) of Urban running. Revs rarely above 6500

While I was in Europe recently the car stood idle for about 9 weeks

No top up lubricant was added

Location
Australian Tropics - high humidity (up to 98%)

Lubricant
Mobil's Delvac 1 5w-40 (CI-4/SL)

(Previous Report results shown in brackets)

Lubricant condition
Water = 0.00 (NA)
Fuel = 0.00 (NA)
Viscosity @ 40C = 87 (88) cSt
TBN = NA (6.4)
TAN = 3.3 (NA)
Soot Index = 0.1 (NA)
PQ Index = <1 (<1)

Elemental analysis
Iron = 3 (12)
Aluminium = <1 (<1)
Chromium = <1 (1)
Copper = <1 (10)
Lead = <1 (1)
Potassium = 2 (6)
Silicon = 8 (18 due to gasket sealant)
Sodium = 1 (5)
Tin = <1 (NA)
Oil consumption = nil

Summary
Whilst the lubricant was obviously still suitable for continued use I changed it and the filter due to an impending long (3500kms/2173miles) high speed journey (now over)

I hope that this is of interest

lilredpo

Any idea why such high Iron and Copper last test? Although, they seem to have come down. Did the oil from the previous test have the same mileage and conditions?

JET951

Hi Doug , I see you have forgotten to list the amounts of Boron, Magnesium,Barium,Phosphorous and Zinc , if you get a chance can you list these as well , it will give all a chance to see how much ZDDP is present (Traditional AW Package) which naturally the Delvac is high in as well as a very high detergent level, these are the reasons why this oil is not recommended to be used in any petrol (gas USA) powered Porsche by either Porsche or Mobil (who make it ).
Great to see you back ,and I am looking forward to asking you many questions , which I am sure you will be more than happy to answer .
BB.

PS ,Oh by the way I thought you have mentioned on Rennlist on at least a few occasions (other forums) that ZDDP has been replaced by the newer AW packages which you stated are proving better than the older traditional levels of ZDDP , but yet you are using an oil that is high in ZDDP ,
I and others are confused , can you please clear this up .

Doug Hillary

Hi,
lilredpo - Thanks for the questions

The distance covered and the cycle of operation were very similar

The movement in wear metals between Reports is quite within single pass Used Oil Analysis (UOAs) expectations. They are not related nor upward moving

The lubricant was of course judged by the Oil Company Lab (and myself) to be suitable for continued use

The PQ Index is the most interesting item as it shows the level of magnetic/ferrous material in the lubricant (it is an Index and "unitless" - but, the lower the better)

The lubricant I use is of course Quality rated by the API as suitable for use in diesel and high performance petrol engines. I have used this lubricant for around a decade in many engine families. This has included engine manufacturer teardown/inspections after 1m kms.

It was endorsed for use in this vehicle by Porsche AG under their Extended Warranty programme

I have no Commercial connection with any Oil Company

I hope this is of interest

Turboflyer

I do not understand why someone would go to the expense of oil analysis and insist and defend their position on using the improper oil for their vehicle. Their are trade offs in what oils can do in various applications, but an oil designed for diesel engines is way to high in detergents. Detergents do not lubricate. So why start off on the wrong foot. Hey you are entitled to use olive oil if you want. It is your car and your decision. I only add this info as intended in the spirit of open non-hostile exchange of information. Nothing personal intended. I am one-hundred percent sure I am right as long as no one questions me or offers new information.

Lubricant condition
Water = 0.00 (NA) OK
Fuel = 0.00 (NA) OK
Viscosity @ 40C = 87 (88) cSt OK
TBN = NA (6.4)
TAN = 3.3 (NA)
Soot Index = 0.1 (NA)
PQ Index = <1 (<1)

Elemental analysis
Iron = 3 (12) AVG 7
Aluminium = <1 (<1) AVG 3
Chromium = <1 (1) AVG 0
Copper = <1 (10) AVG 5
Lead = <1 (1) AVG 1
Potassium = 2 (6) AVG 1
Silicon = 8 (18 due to gasket sealant) AVG 5
Sodium = 1 (5) AVG 6
Tin = <1 (NA) AVG 3
Oil consumption = nil OK
As was mentioned above quite a few important reports were missing to include:
flash point, insolubles, molybdenum, nickel, manganese. titanium.

Doug Hillary

Hi,
Turboflyer - I don't need to defend any position. I published the details for public consumption

The "missing" items you name are not part of a normal "single sample" UOA undertaken in the Labs of either Mobil or Castrol in this country. The data reproduced here has been that used in UOAs by me and most Tribologists for many decades.

The data provided enables an experienced reader to obtain all the data needed to assess the lubricant and the wear metal uptake from the component involved
- and to make any relevant decisions arising from this

Trending of this data is where the real information lies

Other more sophisticated UOAs can be undertaken at a much greater cost but are only really required in specialised applications

Turboflyer

Doug. Tribologists. Experienced reader. Of course you don't need to defend your position. You are correct about the trend analysis. It is just incomplete. My oil samples are tested for all the items listed, one sample , and less than 15 bucks. I also have the ATF done as well. Good luck with future trends.

Macster

I fail to see reason to extend service life of a few quarts of oil at expense of engine's longevity. Oil is the sacrifical item in the oil/engine combination not the engine.

222K miles on original engine. Engine receives 5000 mile oil/filter changes. Damn the analysis stuff.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Doug Hillary

Hi,
Macster - The OC was of course short in both time (8 months) and distance (5kkms) over the Factory recommended OCI

When lubricants in NA reach prices similar to the RoW then opinions will change over there. M1 0W-40 is around $A18 per litre here and much more in Europe. The lubricant I use in the Boxster costs me around $A11 per litre on my Commercial contracts

In my Interstate trucking business (and in the Fleets of my Customers) oil analysis played(s) a major role in obtaining maximum engine and component life and ultimately, reliability and the best operating economics

Over many years I have found the Porsche recommended OCIs to be very conservative

JET951

Doug ,Boxter oil capacity is very very small indeed compared to large trucks , so the risk you are promoting(over extended OCI) and the argument on cost just does not add up at all , then add the non compliant oil you are using(high detergent diesel oil) , one just has to ask why ? , in plain English Doug please tell us what you are trying to achieve or what are you trying to say about the the oil recommended by Porsche and Mobil , just come out with it and tell us why ?.
BB.

PS , you do realise that the diesel oil that you are using does not comply to the ACEA protocols laid down and adhered to by Porsche and Mobil for your Boxter , thats why it will never meet the requirements .

Macster

interstate highway -- I-70 -- which carried a lot of big rig truck traffic.

Just a few miles from where I lived was a freeway intersection and several major truck stops, one with a SpeedCo big rig oil change and service facility.

This SpeedCo facility had an oil analysis machine. Had my Boxster's oil and my VW Golf Tdi oil analyzed just to see what it was all about.

Simply not interested though in periodic visits to have oil analyzed. Procedure generally requires oil filter housing be removed, oil poured out and analyzed, and if found ok housing cleaned and new filter element installed with housing topped up with fresh oil and reinstalled.

Of course if oil found due to be changed a full oil change is then done.

For my Boxster and VW the labor for this: New filter and filter housing o-ring, cleaning housing, plus oil analysis charge represented a not insignificant fraction of the cost of an oil/filter service (with me doing the work).

Plus with analysis one's faced with the added worry of when to schedule another one.

With an oil/filter service at 5000 miles (in my case, some might opt to go longer based on their driving habits, climate, etc.) after an oil change there were no worries about scheduling any analysis. I was left with the peace of mind that comes from knowing engine had fresh oil and filter and was ready to rock and roll on for another 5000 miles.

Also, I note that about half the truckers used the oil analysis method. The other half I spoke with just had oil changed every month -- big rigs at least then were racking up consistent number of miles and based on engine make and engine maker recommendations drivers/owners/operators were changing oil every 15,000 to 30,000 miles. Big rigs carry lots more oil and have good air and oil filters and of course are diesel which in some ways not as hard on engine oil as gasoline engines. Not uncommon for these engines to rack up a million miles before major internal engine work required. If oil/filter servicing based on simple time/mileage numbers not working for these truckers oil analysis would be pervasive.

Analyze oil if you want. If I had a fleet of vehicles to worry about I might go that route. But for just my one or two personal cars, oil/filter services every 5000 miles is just way too easy compared to the added complexity of having to deal with visits to a facility to have oil analyzed which also has to be same facility that can change oil and my experience is these facilities do not want to service cars in general and Porsches in particular. I visited a SpeedCo to have my cars' oil analyzed during off hours when shop not busy and techs willing to speak with me about the oil analysis process and oil changing of big rig engine oil. Managed to speak with some truck drivers/owners as well as they came in for servicing on their vehicles.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Doug Hillary

Hi,
Macster - I have hundreds of UOAs from many engines on my database - assembled over many years. Engine family UOA trending has been a speciality of mine for many many years. I have worked on lubricant and engine development (petrol/diesel) with a number of Oil Companies and engine manufacturers starting in the 1960s!

The lubricant in my Boxster has of course the API's "SL" petrol engine Quality rating which far exceeds the requirement of the engine. It also far exceeds ACEA's Quality ratings A3/B3 for petrol/diesel engines and Porsche's foaming & HTHS viscosity test protocols

I published my data to enable any Porsche owner with a similar engine series to add my results to their database or records as reference data

Frankly, I'm very sorry I did!

Turboflyer

Oh come on Doug. If every one said yes sir yes sir three bags full what could we possible learn from that. Although I disagree on some of your minor points, you have created a great dialog and some valuable information. Talking about oil is tantamount to theological debates. Keep it coming.

Doug Hillary

Hi,
Turboflyer - All I did was publish the results of a UOA from my vehicle generated by an Oil Company's commercial Laboratory for general interest. The problem arises when the details are disputed - I did not ceate the Report the Lab did!

People can use the data or chose not to, that is everbody's choice

I am suitably qualified to answer questions relating to the data I published - further details about lubricants may be obtained from accessing "Bob is the Oil Guy" (BITOG) a Forum covering lubricants and lubrication matters

I certainly didn't and don't intend to get into any "religous" debate about the merits of one or other lubricant on here

JET951

Doug , all I ask is for you to give in simple English why you use a Non Porsche Approved Diesel oil in your non diesel Boxter instead of the oil recommended by Porsche and Mobil, there must be a reason why you use it ?, because for you to use and promote this high ZDDP & detergent diesel oil as you have done for quite some years now on Rennlist , Landshark and other forums ,this says to me there is something that you know and are trying to tell us .
Is it because its high in ZDDP ?
Is it because you are not sure about the newer AW Packages that have displaced ZDDP to some extent ?
What is it Doug ?
BB