SD Porsche Fan

I'm looking at a '99 Boxster with 98k miles. The dealer is offering a 3rd party lifetime warranty on the drive train. I asked specifically about the IMS but the sales rep wasn't sure.

Does anyone have any experience with these types of warranty programs?

edit - I just read where it only covers damage as the result of the failure of an internally lubricated part. Since the IMS bearing is sealed I wonder if that would fall outside the coverage.

JayG

Lifetime drive train warranty on a 100k mileage car?
I have a bridge to sell as well.....
Probublly not worth the paper its printed on

Read it very carefully and do a web search on the company

Macster

What JayG said. My advice is get a copy of the actual warranty contract and read the fine print.

SD Porsche Fan

They said as long as it is touched by oil it's covered. I'm thinking that since the bearing is sealed that it probably wouldn't cover it.

Schnell Gelb

My pals have an Indie exotic car repair shop In Pasadena. Their experience with used car warranties is generally dismal. There are a few legitimate ,honest warranty companies but even they are only as good as the rep who 'adjusts' or assesses your damaged mechanicals.
1. The best advice is to find the most technically competent water-cooled Porsche Indie. That is a major task. My trick (that worked way too late to avert my disaster) is to quickly scan the candidates workshop. You need to see engine+trans out of cars, engines on stands,lots of activity .Avoid the oil change & wiper blade replacement poseurs.Talk to Porsche mechanics, not salesmen.
2. Ask your chosen Indie which insurance company he prefers.
3. Only buy a car with that warranty. Yes, it is limiting but otherwise it may be worthless.
4. Far better -consider buying a car via said Indie -because he will know the mechanical history of the car.
5. Abandon all conventional year/mileage based valuation conventions on older water cooled P-cars. If the engine fails ,the repair cost could easily exceed your purchase price.A well maintained M96 runs as long as a Toyota -but there are many examples of severe penalties for inadequate/postponed maintenance/hack repairs.
6. Get a PPI from your chosen Indie. Listen for every little rattle & tinkle from the engine. Only an expert will know the difference between a rod going bad and something inconsequential. And as an amateur(like me) ,what you think is lifter noise -is not ! It is the beginning of something way,way more expensive!
7.Tell us which Indie(s) you found so we can support them. Ask for recommendations here on Rennlist.
Good Luck with the hunt!

SD Porsche Fan

Thank you for the input everyone. At this point I think I'm going to go the route of finding the best car I can and then spring for the LN bearing upgrade.

Has anyone heard of any LN bearing failures?

I had an '89 951 for 10 years and sold it this fall looking for a change. I've always wanted a convertible and there are some really nice Boxsters available for around $10k. I just have to get my head around on the IMS failure before I can make a decision.

PorscheDoc

Oh believe me, the bearing is touched by oil, lol.

PorscheDoc

Also, there are very specific procedures to follow on when and when not to replace a bearing. If a bearing is starting to fail and there is metal debris in the system, installing an oem or an aftermarket bearing like an LN is likely going to lead to failure again.

SD Porsche Fan

I guess I'll just have to save up and get something newer than a 2008. Or wait until they're cheaper. Whichever comes first.

Macster

That reads like what "they" would say to get you to buy the warranty.

However, the bearing is not touched by oil not in any meaningful way. About the only portion of the bearing that receives any oil contact and this is just happenstance would be the seals.

The bearing is not fed oil, and while does upon occasion run partially submerged in oil does not depend upon this for any lubrication. It is not even splash lubed like the cam lobes and lifter buckets.

You really need to read the fine print of the warranty (extended service) contract. You cannot go on what someone who has a fiduciary interest in selling you the warranty or the car with the warranty has to say regarding what is covered and not covered.

Schnell Gelb

IMHO
1. Don't fixate just on the IMS like i did. There are at least another 29 Modes of Failure on the M96 according to experts. My IMS was a new LN and I still got nailed by one of the other 29 !
2. A little lateral thinking can be quite positive - all the worries about M96 repair costs have depressed 996 and 986 prices . The trick is to use this stigma to your advantage and find a well maintained one via an Indie at a distressed price.
3. 2008 -why? Many of the same issues and the same resolution -well maintained one via an Indie. Of the newer cars, the 2009+ PDK is interesting if Sport Chrono is fitted .Try one !

mikefocke

OTOH, the depreciation on an IMS-equipped Boxster has already occurred. See if you can buy one with a PPI that includes removal of the oil filter and its examination. If it is clean, that isn't a 100% guarantee there aren't bits elsewhere but it sure reduces the chances. Then do the LN IMS.

I'm convinced that without the IMS, the price of the 986 era cars would be an additional three times more than the cost of the IMS replacement so you'll still be getting a bargain. We sellers have already taken the hit.

Is your Acura one of the ones that had the transmission problem? My wife's did 50k miles after the dealer had certified in writing it didn't need the fix for the exact cause of the failure. My point is every car has its weak points and random occurrences can take down any piece of machinery.

PorscheDoc

While it does not depend on oil for lubrication, the bearing assembly most certainly is touched by oil, so if that is how the warranty is stated, then it seems you are good to go...and I have never seen oil not seeped past the seal on any IMS bearing I have ever pulled out, so the internals are affected as well.

We have had warranty companies actual pay for preventative maintenance replacements on the IMS bearing after talking with them about the failures, class action lawsuit, etc.

The biggest fine print of aftermarket warranties that most people don't realize is that often times there is a pay out cap. Usually it is around $3-4k.

Steve, don't get fixated or scared by the IMS issue. With close monitoring and a little maintenance, the M96 engine will provide a lot of years of great service. The key is a good PPI, making sure it have a list of things checked before buying. You shouldn't just go look at one, test drive, buy and drive away. Doesn't work like that with these cars.

SD Porsche Fan

The warranty is being offered at the listed price. I explained the IMS bearing failure risk and emailed them all the information I could. The dealer came back and said that their warranty would indeed cover in the event of a failure. I do think I would like that in writing.

Here is a link to the warranty: http://www.nmclients.com/COONRAPIDS/PDF/index.html

Thank you Karl. I think I'd like to find one in KC and have you do the PPI.

PorscheDoc

So that warranty looks like it covers up to the same purchase price as the vehicle, so if it is a 10k vehicle, then 10k is the cap from what I am seeing. While the things covered doesn't use the term "anything contacted by oil" that I see, it does contain a lot of timing components, which should be an easy sell in the case of an IMS bearing. Of course, you never know until you are in the situation on the phone with an insurance company that doesn't want to pay, lol!