Yellowing Carbon Fiber - Page 16

Rock · 02-11-2008, 06:11 AM

I just breezed throught this thread, but I must say I have to agree.

Porsche must think that the sun doesnt exist and there is no such thing as UV rays. Or they must think that people just buy the cars to have in their garage.

Im on convertable top number 2349712309 with my car. Ive never seen a convertible window go completely opaque like the ones that Porsche uses.

They must get their plastics from recycled barbie dolls at Toys R Us.

Mrmerlin · 02-11-2008, 08:07 AM

If you dont want the carbon fiber to turn yellow paint it, thats what the Airforce did with the B2 although they have RAM, I know it looks super cool and Hi tech, but the resins, fibers and the suns UV light dont seem to mix well otherwise think of it as a fine bottle of wine aging gracefully, though not in the most favorited color, i wonder how much strength is lost due to UV exposure

Ced · 02-12-2008, 07:58 PM

Anyone has detailed pics of the yellowing?

PorscheDude1 · 02-17-2008, 03:55 PM

Its buried on this thread.

carcommander · 02-18-2008, 05:38 PM

Why fight with Porsche. Just sell the car and go on with your life. I never keep a toy I do not like. Nothing in this world is perfect.

VRAlexander · 03-01-2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBGT

By "OP" I thought you were referring to me; I didn't know you were talking a VRAlexander. I agree he hasen't followed up on what he said he would.

Hi guys...I see this thread has taken a life of its own on.... I have not posted anything because Porsche has come to the table to negotiate with me (they don't want a PR nightmare but a happy customer), this puts this case into a negotiations mode (and in turn I also pulled the car from Caesars Palace)... I will however post the outcome (unless they have me sign a ND).. Thanks for everyone's input and contribution to making this public information...

PODCAST on the car:
http://www.streetfire.net/video/bc5c...5000fab433.htm

Tso GT3 · 03-02-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VRAlexander

Hi guys...I see this thread has taken a life of its own on.... I have not posted anything because Porsche has come to the table to negotiate with me (they don't want a PR nightmare but a happy customer), this puts this case into a negotiations mode (and in turn I also pulled the car from Caesars Palace)... I will however post the outcome (unless they have me sign a ND).. Thanks for everyone's input and contribution to making this public information...

PODCAST on the car:
http://www.streetfire.net/video/bc5c...5000fab433.htm

Who is that fat guy in the video? I love the way that skinny guy tries to flirt or kiss ass to that fat guy.

VRAlexander · 03-03-2008, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tso GT3

Who is that fat guy in the video? I love the way that skinny guy tries to flirt or kiss ass to that fat guy.

Happy belated birthday....did you ever get your airbag light figured out?

brrt50cal · 03-14-2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 315s

The new 2009 Corvette ZR1:

The underside of the hood has an exposed carbon-fiber-weave. Exposed carbon-fiber is used on the roof, roof bow, rocker molding and front splitter. These exterior components are protected by a specially developed glossy, UV-resistant clear coat that resists yellowing and wear.

More like Carrera GT killer.

Jarez Mifkin · 03-14-2008, 01:55 AM

Street racing rules.

come on, go to the drag strip.

VRAlexander · 03-14-2008, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brrt50cal

More like Carrera GT killer.

We shall see July 16th (plus or minus a couple of days, depending on the break-in miles) ;-)

laneskelton · 03-15-2008, 03:24 AM

Porsche factory carbon yellows pretty bad, and the clear coat tends to crack. Our stuff has a uv protectant in the resin, and so far we haven't seen any yellowing.

VRAlexander · 03-15-2008, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laneskelton

Porsche factory carbon yellows pretty bad, and the clear coat tends to crack. Our stuff has a uv protectant in the resin, and so far we haven't seen any yellowing.

I didn't know that you sell Carbon for the CGT??

future · 04-03-2008, 10:20 AM

To be honest Porsche are only part to blame for this problem as they outsourced all of the CF manufacturing on the CGT.

The Carrera GT's carbon fiber monocoque and subframe were produced and assembled by ATR Composites Group in Italy. Here s a link to their website: http://www.atrgroup.it/eng/atrcomposites/automotive.htm

I think I am right is saying that ATR manufactured the Ferrari F50 tube also.

Either which was Porsche should hold their hands up and sort the problem out – I guess they are simply trying to cover their backs as the last thing they want is a warranty claim and recall on all CGT’s produced. That would spell financial disaster for the company.

Either which way I’m very sorry to see and read about this issue

MSchumacher · 04-11-2008, 03:24 PM

I jsut found this thread and I find it very interesting. I am an engineer and work with the manufacturing of carbon fiber components for certain open wheeled formula cars. We have always known that most resin systems used in preimpregnated carbon fiber is UV sensitive and all exposed parts on the panels, steering wheel, monocoque, etc, will, over time, yellow. It's not hte carbon fibers that yellow, it is the resin. They are racing vehicles so of course we do not coat them in any UV resistant coating. The yellowing does not, for as much as we know, reduce the strength of the compenents whatsoever.

Formula 1 tubs from 14 years ago that are running in the euro BOSS series do just fine, and most of their exposed components, even those under the engine bay that do not normally see light, are yellowed (spend enough time at the track with the engine cover off downloading data and even valve covers, etc yellow.

As for the Carrera GT and other cars I have always wondered how they deal with this issue. The first carbon fiber use I ever saw exposed on a Porsche was on a 1994 911 Turbo. It had the CD dash insert and steering wheel.

I do not know if porsche should be held responsible for replacing these panels that yellow. It's a natural aging, just like leather gets worn in and wood grain on a new desk ages, etc... On the cars we run, especiallially the old test chassis that are bare carbon fiber, it just makes us feel nostalgic as we can tell the age almost by the color of the CF.

I am however surprised that Porsche didn't say anywhere in the owners manual that yellow can occour. Sure it has a UV coating but still, I would think that they would just say that yellowing can occour and is a normal aging process of the carbon fiber panels. If customers do not want this to happen, then Porsche could just have the option of painting hte panels black/interior color/body colored and call it a day.

Like I said, I deal with the material on a daily basis and I honestly would have no problem buying a used CGT that had yellowed panels. It's like a fine wine - it's aged. It got out from under it's cover and into the light often, not just sitting going to waste.

For all the owners out there I encourage you to wear it on your sleeve instead of complain about it...

02-11-2008, 06:11 AM	#226
Rock Lazer Beam Shooter Rennlist Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ashburn, Virginia Posts: 6,482	I just breezed throught this thread, but I must say I have to agree. Porsche must think that the sun doesnt exist and there is no such thing as UV rays. Or they must think that people just buy the cars to have in their garage. Im on convertable top number 2349712309 with my car. Ive never seen a convertible window go completely opaque like the ones that Porsche uses. They must get their plastics from recycled barbie dolls at Toys R Us. __________________ 1984 Yellow N/a - SOLD 1986 Black N/a -DEAD 1986 White N/a Dragon Somethin' 1986 Turbo - *DEAD* 1991 S2/951 Cabriolet - Sleeping in Xsboosts garage 1987 Red 951 1988 BMW 735I - *DEAD* 1988 BMW 735I - Sold 1995 BMW 740IL 1995 BMW 740I - SOLD 1999 Audi A4 1.8T - SOLD 2001 Range Rover 4.6 HSE

02-11-2008, 08:07 AM	#227
Mrmerlin Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aurora Colorado Posts: 6,842	If you dont want the carbon fiber to turn yellow paint it, thats what the Airforce did with the B2 although they have RAM, I know it looks super cool and Hi tech, but the resins, fibers and the suns UV light dont seem to mix well otherwise think of it as a fine bottle of wine aging gracefully, though not in the most favorited color, i wonder how much strength is lost due to UV exposure __________________ 1988 S4 Elfenbein Perlglanz with a full Pearl Gray leather interior, Auto 1986.5 Meteor Metallic/ tan-brown, Auto

03-15-2008, 03:24 AM	#237
laneskelton Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA. Posts: 289	Porsche factory carbon yellows pretty bad, and the clear coat tends to crack. Our stuff has a uv protectant in the resin, and so far we haven't seen any yellowing. __________________ lane skelton MAcarbon www.macarbon.com 1980 928 5spd red/tan (short shift, borla exhaust, boxster twist wheels, konis) 1999 996 c2 6spd red/tan (fabspeed exhaust, light weight flywheel, sport seats) 1985 1/2 944 changes color for each race (race car) 2002 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro Blue/beige (stock)

04-03-2008, 10:20 AM	#239
future Basic Sponsor Rennlist Site Sponsor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cheshire, England Posts: 1,376	To be honest Porsche are only part to blame for this problem as they outsourced all of the CF manufacturing on the CGT. The Carrera GT's carbon fiber monocoque and subframe were produced and assembled by ATR Composites Group in Italy. Here s a link to their website: http://www.atrgroup.it/eng/atrcomposites/automotive.htm I think I am right is saying that ATR manufactured the Ferrari F50 tube also. Either which was Porsche should hold their hands up and sort the problem out – I guess they are simply trying to cover their backs as the last thing they want is a warranty claim and recall on all CGT’s produced. That would spell financial disaster for the company. Either which way I’m very sorry to see and read about this issue __________________ www.deutschnine.com - Main Porsche Products website (911 / Bosxter & Cayman / Transaxle / Cayenne) www.deutschnine.com/swissvax-swizol/ - High Performance Car Care for your Porsche Hand Made in Switzerland www.deutschnine.co.uk - UK, US, CAN & AUS Dealer Enquiries www.deutschnine.eu - European & Eastern Europe Dealer Enquiries www.swissvaxporsche.com - The official worldwide Swissvax for Porsche Online store

02-12-2008, 07:58 PM	#228
Ced User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cote D'ivoire Posts: 15	Anyone has detailed pics of the yellowing?

02-17-2008, 03:55 PM	#229
PorscheDude1 On the Radar Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bel Air, Md. Posts: 3,991	Its buried on this thread.

02-18-2008, 05:38 PM	#230
carcommander User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 251	Why fight with Porsche. Just sell the car and go on with your life. I never keep a toy I do not like. Nothing in this world is perfect.

03-14-2008, 01:55 AM	#235
Jarez Mifkin User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mifkinbul Posts: 1,482	Street racing rules. come on, go to the drag strip.

04-11-2008, 03:24 PM	#240
MSchumacher New User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2	I jsut found this thread and I find it very interesting. I am an engineer and work with the manufacturing of carbon fiber components for certain open wheeled formula cars. We have always known that most resin systems used in preimpregnated carbon fiber is UV sensitive and all exposed parts on the panels, steering wheel, monocoque, etc, will, over time, yellow. It's not hte carbon fibers that yellow, it is the resin. They are racing vehicles so of course we do not coat them in any UV resistant coating. The yellowing does not, for as much as we know, reduce the strength of the compenents whatsoever. Formula 1 tubs from 14 years ago that are running in the euro BOSS series do just fine, and most of their exposed components, even those under the engine bay that do not normally see light, are yellowed (spend enough time at the track with the engine cover off downloading data and even valve covers, etc yellow. As for the Carrera GT and other cars I have always wondered how they deal with this issue. The first carbon fiber use I ever saw exposed on a Porsche was on a 1994 911 Turbo. It had the CD dash insert and steering wheel. I do not know if porsche should be held responsible for replacing these panels that yellow. It's a natural aging, just like leather gets worn in and wood grain on a new desk ages, etc... On the cars we run, especiallially the old test chassis that are bare carbon fiber, it just makes us feel nostalgic as we can tell the age almost by the color of the CF. I am however surprised that Porsche didn't say anywhere in the owners manual that yellow can occour. Sure it has a UV coating but still, I would think that they would just say that yellowing can occour and is a normal aging process of the carbon fiber panels. If customers do not want this to happen, then Porsche could just have the option of painting hte panels black/interior color/body colored and call it a day. Like I said, I deal with the material on a daily basis and I honestly would have no problem buying a used CGT that had yellowed panels. It's like a fine wine - it's aged. It got out from under it's cover and into the light often, not just sitting going to waste. For all the owners out there I encourage you to wear it on your sleeve instead of complain about it...