Musings of CGT, McLaren 12c and Ferrari 458 Spider
08-06-2013, 07:11 PM
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Musings of CGT, McLaren 12c and Ferrari 458 Spider
I have had my Carrera GT for about a week, my 12c for over a year, and had the 458 spider for about 6 months but I drove it over 2,000 miles including a track day.
I love the CGT. It is the closest thing to a race car for the street... Including the rattling race clutch at slow speed. I wanted a super car version of a Porsche GT3 and this is it. It is very visceral. There is something to be said for the engagement the manual clutch asks of you, or should I say, demands of you. Brakes are typical Porsche and for me, perfect. Of all of these cars, this gets by far the most attention. The sound is vintage F1 (from behind the car). That said this car is not for everyone. If you aren't good with a manual, or let alone, heel-toe, this probably is not for you. For those who can, the well executed throttle blip from this car is sheer gratification! The all carbon tub, sub frame and body panels are beautifully executed. The car feels old-school-built-like-a-bank-vault -- this is missing in all modern exotics it seems. Personally I think this car still looks fairly current, unlike almost decade old exotics. This car is a keeper.
In contrast, the 12c is sooo easy to drive and to drive fast. At an event this past weekend I took a few people for rides but would only let people drive the 12c... since I knew that they would not get into trouble (or burn up a clutch). In comparison to the road feel with the CGT both have perfect steering feel for me, perhaps with a slight advantage to the 12c as it feels smaller and more nimble. But the 12c feels very slightly more isolated from the road, like a smudge on a window, and I wonder if this is due to the different suspension technologies. On that note, the 12c does win with great road versatility because of its adjustable somewhat active suspension. I *think* the 12c is a keeper. I wonder though whether the upcoming 991 GT3 RS might be a better every day car while offering same or near same performance? Hypothetical since it wouldn't be worth selling the 12c for anything else right now. I would just add the GT3 RS if it is that good!
The 458 is unique. It combines the "easy to drive" aspects of the 12c with the visceral feel of the CGT. I can see why it is so popular and on short drives the average person -- or reviewer -- would chose the 458 over the 12c. It doesn't demand skill of the driver while delivering the goods: all the speed and sensation of an exotic car. It is a CGT without the effort or incovenience of a race clutch. Heck, you don't even have to go fast, just go over 3,000 rpm to get the exhaust flap to open up!
As many ferrari owners will admit, it is not performance that matters, just the sensation of performance. However, I don't mean to knock it as the 458 is a really great driving car and it rewards the skillful driver. And it looks great. My only functional criticism is its overly boosted steering. I think this is the one area where Ferrari went over board in the sensation of performance at the cost of real performance.
I love the CGT. It is the closest thing to a race car for the street... Including the rattling race clutch at slow speed. I wanted a super car version of a Porsche GT3 and this is it. It is very visceral. There is something to be said for the engagement the manual clutch asks of you, or should I say, demands of you. Brakes are typical Porsche and for me, perfect. Of all of these cars, this gets by far the most attention. The sound is vintage F1 (from behind the car). That said this car is not for everyone. If you aren't good with a manual, or let alone, heel-toe, this probably is not for you. For those who can, the well executed throttle blip from this car is sheer gratification! The all carbon tub, sub frame and body panels are beautifully executed. The car feels old-school-built-like-a-bank-vault -- this is missing in all modern exotics it seems. Personally I think this car still looks fairly current, unlike almost decade old exotics. This car is a keeper.
In contrast, the 12c is sooo easy to drive and to drive fast. At an event this past weekend I took a few people for rides but would only let people drive the 12c... since I knew that they would not get into trouble (or burn up a clutch). In comparison to the road feel with the CGT both have perfect steering feel for me, perhaps with a slight advantage to the 12c as it feels smaller and more nimble. But the 12c feels very slightly more isolated from the road, like a smudge on a window, and I wonder if this is due to the different suspension technologies. On that note, the 12c does win with great road versatility because of its adjustable somewhat active suspension. I *think* the 12c is a keeper. I wonder though whether the upcoming 991 GT3 RS might be a better every day car while offering same or near same performance? Hypothetical since it wouldn't be worth selling the 12c for anything else right now. I would just add the GT3 RS if it is that good!
The 458 is unique. It combines the "easy to drive" aspects of the 12c with the visceral feel of the CGT. I can see why it is so popular and on short drives the average person -- or reviewer -- would chose the 458 over the 12c. It doesn't demand skill of the driver while delivering the goods: all the speed and sensation of an exotic car. It is a CGT without the effort or incovenience of a race clutch. Heck, you don't even have to go fast, just go over 3,000 rpm to get the exhaust flap to open up!
As many ferrari owners will admit, it is not performance that matters, just the sensation of performance. However, I don't mean to knock it as the 458 is a really great driving car and it rewards the skillful driver. And it looks great. My only functional criticism is its overly boosted steering. I think this is the one area where Ferrari went over board in the sensation of performance at the cost of real performance.
08-06-2013, 08:01 PM
#2
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Biko,
Great writeup and couldn't agree more on you cgt thoughts. I've spent considerable time driving a 12c spider also and mostly agree there too - I thought the steering feel was lacking and effort a little light. 12c clearly has better performance figures but that's not all there is to enjoying the driving experience. Haven't driven a 458 yet.
I think the cgt was underappreciated but over the years, I think the cgt has gained more and more appreciation from those who understand what it is and does - especially now that we know there will never be anything made like it again.
Great writeup and couldn't agree more on you cgt thoughts. I've spent considerable time driving a 12c spider also and mostly agree there too - I thought the steering feel was lacking and effort a little light. 12c clearly has better performance figures but that's not all there is to enjoying the driving experience. Haven't driven a 458 yet.
I think the cgt was underappreciated but over the years, I think the cgt has gained more and more appreciation from those who understand what it is and does - especially now that we know there will never be anything made like it again.
Last edited by bbs993tt; 08-07-2013 at 12:41 AM.
08-07-2013, 05:25 AM
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I love my 12C and my CGT. two ends of the convenience spectrum but both really high obviously on performance. the 12c is just much easier to extract and play with, the CGT you really have to know what you are doing. I drove my CGT on the track a few times and had a blast. Glad I'd had open wheel racing experience as that is the closest sensation comparable.
Having owned and tracked GT3's for years, the CGT obviously demands more but rewards much more...
Having owned and tracked GT3's for years, the CGT obviously demands more but rewards much more...
08-09-2013, 07:55 AM
#6
Interesting post. I have a CGT and a 458 spider as well and have enjoyed both very much. I have a 991 C4S as my DD.
The CGT is clearly the keeper. Enough has been said about the unique and timeless elements of this car. The spider is the car I am struggling with and trying to decide what to do. It is so good that it makes the whole process of driving it a bit too easy. In addition, it is yet another in a sequence of excellent vehicles from Ferrari these days which will soon be one upped by either the new 458 'Scuderia' or F12 and as such I feel it is passing through my garage. I have been mulling selling the spider now and ordering an F12, but upon further reflection have been thinking about replacing it with something that will give me more long term love. Current candidates are a Singer 911 or Ford GT, both of which I am deeply in love with for different reasons. I have also flirted over the past few years with the idea of an F40 but now prices are getting out of control and I'm not ready for it I think.
I think that these days you have to actually look backwards in time to find the most epic, timeless, and special cars. Nothing on the current or short term future production line seems that appealing when compared to the older stuff ..
The CGT is clearly the keeper. Enough has been said about the unique and timeless elements of this car. The spider is the car I am struggling with and trying to decide what to do. It is so good that it makes the whole process of driving it a bit too easy. In addition, it is yet another in a sequence of excellent vehicles from Ferrari these days which will soon be one upped by either the new 458 'Scuderia' or F12 and as such I feel it is passing through my garage. I have been mulling selling the spider now and ordering an F12, but upon further reflection have been thinking about replacing it with something that will give me more long term love. Current candidates are a Singer 911 or Ford GT, both of which I am deeply in love with for different reasons. I have also flirted over the past few years with the idea of an F40 but now prices are getting out of control and I'm not ready for it I think.
I think that these days you have to actually look backwards in time to find the most epic, timeless, and special cars. Nothing on the current or short term future production line seems that appealing when compared to the older stuff ..
08-11-2013, 05:43 PM
#7
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+980 and I agree that either the Singer 911 or the FGT would hit the right buttons.
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08-12-2013, 04:31 AM
#8
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Great thread...I am currently looking for a cgt! I spent 6 months and 4k miles with my 458 coupe and I loved it. It was a yellow coupe and the sounds alone made me smile very day. I am very intrigued by the Singer and met one of the owners of the company last sunday. Its really a fun time to be an enthusiast.