Jeff928S4

Car is a 2006 S

Had my starter finally give up after a year of wonky starts. Figured I'd get them to do the waterpump/temp sensor/thermostat (and new seals and that plastic H-shaped pipe) while they were in there. Turns out my coolant pipes were already aluminum, so I have to send the kit I bought back now. Good news though. Total labor for pump/starter/sensor/thermo was 8.5 hrs (good or bad??).

After getting the car back from the shop, went for a spin on the highway (and it was -10 outside at the time) and noticed the temp gauge wasn't moving. After pulling over for a bit, the temp started to rise, only to slowly fall back down once I started moving again. Drove home and shut it down. Next morning I start the car and the coolant fans are running (only has done that the one time so far). Check codes and see the 2181 code for coolant system. Seems like the thermostat is stuck open?

What are the chances I got a bad thermostat (ordered the Borg Wagner version from Pelican parts)???

Crappy thing is, now (because I provided the part), I have to pay them another 4 or 5 hours to put another new one in. This time I asked them to get the part. In case it happens again, they are the hook to open the car up again and not me.

Is there anything they might have done incorrectly when installing it or does it simply sound like a bad new part? ....and too bad the two year warranty on the part doesn't include the labor cost of replacing it. GRRRRRR!

CTTS520

The 8.5 hours labor is within reason. I've had all that work done including a new waterpump and fresh coolant refill. Total was about 9 hours for the 2 jobs done separately. The starter replacement was worth the price just for the 2 vacuum leaks they found and fixed. Too bad you have to pay for a do over.

brett968

Statistically speaking, it's probably 100x more likely to be the result of technician error as opposed to manufacturing defect / bad part.

Petza914

I would bet you have air trapped in the system rather than a bad thermostat, especially if you bought it from a reputable source and not Amazon or eBay.

You need to have them pull a vacuum on the system using an Airlift tool and refill the system that way to eliminate any voids. This also has to be fine with the heater core fully open (max heat setting). I would try that before taking everything apart again. They don't have to drain the cooling system to do this. The Airlift tool will only pull the air and not the coolant already installed.

I assume the shop did not test the thermostat before installing - I always do that. Should be closed at room temperature, then put it into a pot of boiling water to very it fully opens.

Whitegalaxie

This

TRINITONY

Thanks for the reminder to test the thermostat Pete. I will probably be doing mine by weekend.

Jeff928S4

That's what I was thinking. I have bad luck sometimes, but what are the chances I get the one defective thermostat? I'm kind of hoping I get it back and it does the same thing again (after they replaced the thermostat with a part they provided). I will definitely be going back at them for a refund on the second installation if the part they used displays the same problem.


I did take it back because they also suspected there might be air in the system. They said they bled it again and it "burped", but it didn't help. I also asked if they checked the thermostat and they said there was really no way of testing it, but I do know the old school way was to submerge it in hot water to get it to open up.

What I don't get is, if it was installed closed (I believe the thermostat has to be be pressed in, in the closed position?), wouldn't the car have to get up to operating temp for it to open the first time and then stay stuck open?. I mean, I initially drove the car for a good 10-20 minutes before the temp gauge moved, so it stayed cold until the car stopped moving.

Petza914

Burping the system just means they opened the bleed port so any air that rose up above the coolant could escape. Until I had an Airlift, I would have to burp the system in my gmc pickup 6 different cycles to get the trapped air out. When I filled it with the Airlift last time, it was one and done. I actually left the level about 1" above the max line thinking there had to some trapped air remaining and it would drop a little. It hasn't and has been months.

They need to pull a vacuum on it to refill, not burp it. Burping it doesn't free the trapped air, it only let's air that has already become untrapped to escape.

The thermostat would be closed at install temp. It doesn't open until it gets hot and it isn't something that's manually pushed closed during install. If it was stuck open you would get an error message to that effect and it would take forever for the car to come up to temperature, especially if it's winter Temps where you are. If it's stuck closed, the car would overheat initially and then might recover if it's just lazy, but thats risky for the head gasket.

Jeff928S4

I am getting the P2181 code (but from what I've read, that can also be caused by a bad temp switch, low coolant or air in the system?).

The car does take a lil' longer to heat up when it's cold out, but it has been in the plus temperatures outside the past few days and it warms up pretty fast. It is slower than normal, but not that much slower.


Shop tried pulling air out again yesterday (they said some more air came out), but it didn't change anything.

Have an appointment tomorrow at Porsche to let them put the proper tool on the car and try and remove any air. I am praying and praying it works. Will report back tomorrow.

Jeff928S4

So, Porsche removed the air using their machine. Didn't make a difference. Car still drops in temp when moving on the highway.

Took it back to original shop and asked them to put my original Temp Sensor back in to see if it was the Temp Sensor causing the problems (using the method where the intake stays on). Still the same.

Car is in the shop now having the newly installed thermostat replaced with another one - another 5.5 hrs I have to pay for....unless they get it all apart and find the thermostat is closed I guess.

Anything else, other than the PCM that could cause the temp drop when air hits the rad?? Any way air could be getting into the system without any leaks? What does that h-shaped, plastic "vent" hose do?

hopsis

No possibility of any air entering the system without leaks. The leak would show if they pulled vacuum on the coolant system. It would also show as a pink puddle under the car and low coolant warning on the dash as the coolant level would drop.

Jeff928S4

Thanks - good to know. All signs are still pointing to a stuck open thermostat.

One odd thing I forgot to mention is when I intially got the car back, it was -10 ("feels like -15") that night. Upon starting the car, I got a "Check License Plate Lights" warning. Figured it was due to new LED lights I put back there. Didn't think much of it, but after taking it for a drive on the highway (where the temp gauge never moved from dead cold, but I was still getting heat) and restarting it - I noticed the fans were running full blast (and got light warning again). Next day (which was +2) car started with no fans or warning light - forgot all about it.

Was supposed to get thermostat changed yesterday, but got bumped to Friday. When I went to pick up the car last night, it was -17 ("feels like -30"). Started the car, got the light warning again and after letting it warm up for 15-20 mins, no movement in the gauge (but had heat) and fans were running on full again.

Also noticed the past few days, my ambient temperature is wayyyyyyy off. Last night when it was -17, car was saying it was +8. Started driving and temp went UP to +10 before slowly coming down and settling at -3 after driving for a bit. I obviously need a new ambient temp sensor - is there any correlation between the outside temp sensor and the fans? I know the AC won't come on if the outside temp is too low, but would a bad sensor somehow tell the PCM to turn on the fans immediately when it's -17 out? I always leave my climate control on "ECON" (also noticed that ECON was shut off every time I've picked up the car from the shop - they must be turning it off when using full heat when trying to bleed air).

Getting new ambient temp sensor today.

hopsis

The fans running all the time could also be a poor connection on the fan harness. I had this after removing and installing the fans a couple of times. Try wiggling the big fan connectors, they are designed to "fail to full blast" if they lose signal from ecu.

Jeff928S4

I will give that a try tomorrow when it warms up a bit here.

....btw, does anyone know where the actual outside temp sensor is located?

The part number I found was 955 618 550 02, but that sensor is located inside the engine bay by the brake booster. Does say it is the "ambient temp sensor" though.

I think what I am looking for is the sensor that sits behind the front grill or is that not the ambient temp sensor? Confused.

hopsis

Iirc, the outside temp sensor is behind the bumper and all the plastic air shrouds, attached to the same vertical bar that goes to the hood lock