Brakes and Rotors - Holy Crap!
07-31-2009, 04:43 PM
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Brakes and Rotors - Holy Crap!
Hello everyone - pleasure to be on the forum and reading all the tidbits that people have contributed.
I recently brought in my 2006 Porsche Cayenne Turbo S into the dealer for its 40,000 mile major maintenance. Price was expensive, but they found a couple of warranty issues that they are addressing which makes me happy.
They brought up one thing that did shock me a bit though. They stated that the front brake pads were almost to the sensor and that I should consider changing them. After a quick discussion, it turned out that I also need to replace the rotors as well because Porsche recommends it - which was honestly quite a shock to me. I could understand at around 100k that you'd do this (or maybe even 80k), but I was not expecting it to be changed with the brake pads themselves.
To top that off, the rotors that they recommend are around $800 each. That was not including sensors, refreshing kit, and brake pads. I guess I just have a couple of questions that I'd like to ask the community before committing to something either way.
1.) Do you need to replace the rotors with the pads?
2.) Are there any viable after-market rotors that work just as well (if not better) with the Turbo S configuration?
3.) Are there any viable after-market brake pads that work as well? I'm not as concerned here as I know the Porsche ones come with the sensor hole already for easier mounting (which I'd probably prefer).
I checked out Suncoast and it looks like they are around $700 each for all parts required. Still puts the bill at around $1,400 with me doing the labor. Compared to my previous car (2008 Infiniti G37S), the rotors only run around $100 each - why in the world are the Porsche ones 7x the cost and only last the same amount of time?!
Something just feels off here - yes I know it's an expensive high-end car - I'm guessing I'm paying for the "privilege" to own one of these magnificent machines...
Any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks!
- Scott
I recently brought in my 2006 Porsche Cayenne Turbo S into the dealer for its 40,000 mile major maintenance. Price was expensive, but they found a couple of warranty issues that they are addressing which makes me happy.
They brought up one thing that did shock me a bit though. They stated that the front brake pads were almost to the sensor and that I should consider changing them. After a quick discussion, it turned out that I also need to replace the rotors as well because Porsche recommends it - which was honestly quite a shock to me. I could understand at around 100k that you'd do this (or maybe even 80k), but I was not expecting it to be changed with the brake pads themselves.
To top that off, the rotors that they recommend are around $800 each. That was not including sensors, refreshing kit, and brake pads. I guess I just have a couple of questions that I'd like to ask the community before committing to something either way.
1.) Do you need to replace the rotors with the pads?
2.) Are there any viable after-market rotors that work just as well (if not better) with the Turbo S configuration?
3.) Are there any viable after-market brake pads that work as well? I'm not as concerned here as I know the Porsche ones come with the sensor hole already for easier mounting (which I'd probably prefer).
I checked out Suncoast and it looks like they are around $700 each for all parts required. Still puts the bill at around $1,400 with me doing the labor. Compared to my previous car (2008 Infiniti G37S), the rotors only run around $100 each - why in the world are the Porsche ones 7x the cost and only last the same amount of time?!
Something just feels off here - yes I know it's an expensive high-end car - I'm guessing I'm paying for the "privilege" to own one of these magnificent machines...
Any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks!
- Scott
07-31-2009, 05:00 PM
#2
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35K is good for an S, so 40 for a Turbo S is really good, if your "driving it"
I use aftermarket rotors and pads on my S, I am sure you can get Zimmermans for the Turbo S since they supply PAG. The pads are most certainly available, try looking for Hawk pads, I think Tire Rack sell them.
The labor is about 90 minutes for both sides, first time, faster after that. You may find the rotors are ok for another set of pads, so check first.
If your not racing with it, I am sure a change of pads and sensors is all you need right now, the dealer is told to sell you rotors every time
edit Tirerack has fronts for $124
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/resul...6&autoModClar=
I use aftermarket rotors and pads on my S, I am sure you can get Zimmermans for the Turbo S since they supply PAG. The pads are most certainly available, try looking for Hawk pads, I think Tire Rack sell them.
The labor is about 90 minutes for both sides, first time, faster after that. You may find the rotors are ok for another set of pads, so check first.
If your not racing with it, I am sure a change of pads and sensors is all you need right now, the dealer is told to sell you rotors every time
edit Tirerack has fronts for $124
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/resul...6&autoModClar=
07-31-2009, 05:22 PM
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mudman and ltc - thank you for your posts!
I was checking out the Zimmermann brake disc's and I'll need to check out to see what the spec's are on my current vehicle. It has the red brake finish so I'll have to find the brake caliper build code (I1LL or I1LM) to really make sure that I find something to spec. I'll look in the forums for the information and relate it.
The Zimmermann brake discs seem to only be around $130 / each. Is there any justification to using genuine Porsche components even if the markup is almost 7x? I really don't want to take away from the vehicle, but if I'm not tracking the vehicle (and even if I was, wouldn't I want to get some EBC's?) is there really a justification to purchasing the Porsche components?
- Scott
I was checking out the Zimmermann brake disc's and I'll need to check out to see what the spec's are on my current vehicle. It has the red brake finish so I'll have to find the brake caliper build code (I1LL or I1LM) to really make sure that I find something to spec. I'll look in the forums for the information and relate it.
The Zimmermann brake discs seem to only be around $130 / each. Is there any justification to using genuine Porsche components even if the markup is almost 7x? I really don't want to take away from the vehicle, but if I'm not tracking the vehicle (and even if I was, wouldn't I want to get some EBC's?) is there really a justification to purchasing the Porsche components?
- Scott
07-31-2009, 06:44 PM
#7
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I just purchased the parts for my S from Sunset for around $500 shipped. All OEM, front rotors, pads, sensors, and even the caliper bolts. Seems like your dealer may be overcharging you.
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07-31-2009, 07:27 PM
#9
Just call me Pops
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Why not wait for the message to pop indicating when it's really time to change the brakes?* 
*I used to change them when my mechanic told me to change them (first the stealer, then independent. They would always say, "It's almost touching the sensor" and I'd let them replace). Now I'm using a new mechanic, who told me that I'd be cheating myself if I did it before the warning came on. I love that guy and while I'm at it, a shout out to Bert from JSS Performance!
*I used to change them when my mechanic told me to change them (first the stealer, then independent. They would always say, "It's almost touching the sensor" and I'd let them replace). Now I'm using a new mechanic, who told me that I'd be cheating myself if I did it before the warning came on. I love that guy and while I'm at it, a shout out to Bert from JSS Performance!
07-31-2009, 07:51 PM
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You should check with Sunset Imports in Oregon (they charge you their cost + 15%). Their prices are way better than Suncoast Porsche in FL (they once told me that they could not beat Sunset's prices = why I don't buy from Suncoast anylonger).
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
07-31-2009, 09:40 PM
#12
Just call me Pops
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Ltc's spot on... Your avatar could use a maidenform bro to go along with that brow..
08-01-2009, 02:07 AM
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km1.8t - appreciate your reply...like mudman2 stated though; it is for the Turbo S which requires a different set of rotors (according to Porsche). The part looks to be a 380x38mm rotor for the Turbo S (19" wheels).
When looking for substitutes all I can find are the 350mm size (around 13.7 inches). Many of the sites claim that these will work (i.e. Zimmermann W0133-1610806), but I'm a worried as if the diameter is off, I know I'll be losing something (stopping power, compatibility, et cetera).
Sunset and a couple of others sites offer the rotors at around $600 / each. The Porsche Part Number's are 95535140261 (front right) and 95535140161 (front left). I was hoping to find even some high-end performance after-market ones that meet factory specifications, but I cannot find anything yet.
I was really hoping that someone with the Turbo S model would have some insight. I now know why they are so expensive - they are rare, different, and not mass produced (which makes sense on cost now). The materials between "Porsche" and aftermarkets are not any better - I'd even expect some of the after-market parts to be better because of differing coatings that are offered. Even though I have a high-end machine, I don't "drink the kool-aide" and figure "because it's Porsche it's better" - scrutiny is required, especially when looking at something that's so basic that you'd expect common-sense to kick in...
Right now though - common-sense is lost when you're looking at a different design...the engineering to make the rotors larger is obviously intentional to cope with the high-stresses that the Turbo model's add...stopping power is a huge thing when looking at almost 3 tons of mass...
I'm still open to ideas if anyone has experience replacing rotors on a Turbo S that has the 19" rims and the 380mm design...I've seen the 380mm Brembo replacement (4k+) but even then it's a 380x34mm design...4mm short of the width from the start. Minimum width from what I've read is around 32mm.
Rear rotors are an entirely different story - they are 355x28mm OEM (Part Number 95535240151) - I can easily find replacements for these with after-market parts.
Any further words of wisdom? I think I'm going to have to cave in and purchase the rotors when the light comes on (I'll obviously check to see what the minimum rotor size is and look for issues - and if they don't need to be replaced it's not an issue, but eventually it will be...).
Appreciate all of your patience and posts thus far...
When looking for substitutes all I can find are the 350mm size (around 13.7 inches). Many of the sites claim that these will work (i.e. Zimmermann W0133-1610806), but I'm a worried as if the diameter is off, I know I'll be losing something (stopping power, compatibility, et cetera).
Sunset and a couple of others sites offer the rotors at around $600 / each. The Porsche Part Number's are 95535140261 (front right) and 95535140161 (front left). I was hoping to find even some high-end performance after-market ones that meet factory specifications, but I cannot find anything yet.
I was really hoping that someone with the Turbo S model would have some insight. I now know why they are so expensive - they are rare, different, and not mass produced (which makes sense on cost now). The materials between "Porsche" and aftermarkets are not any better - I'd even expect some of the after-market parts to be better because of differing coatings that are offered. Even though I have a high-end machine, I don't "drink the kool-aide" and figure "because it's Porsche it's better" - scrutiny is required, especially when looking at something that's so basic that you'd expect common-sense to kick in...
Right now though - common-sense is lost when you're looking at a different design...the engineering to make the rotors larger is obviously intentional to cope with the high-stresses that the Turbo model's add...stopping power is a huge thing when looking at almost 3 tons of mass...
I'm still open to ideas if anyone has experience replacing rotors on a Turbo S that has the 19" rims and the 380mm design...I've seen the 380mm Brembo replacement (4k+) but even then it's a 380x34mm design...4mm short of the width from the start. Minimum width from what I've read is around 32mm.
Rear rotors are an entirely different story - they are 355x28mm OEM (Part Number 95535240151) - I can easily find replacements for these with after-market parts.
Any further words of wisdom? I think I'm going to have to cave in and purchase the rotors when the light comes on (I'll obviously check to see what the minimum rotor size is and look for issues - and if they don't need to be replaced it's not an issue, but eventually it will be...).
Appreciate all of your patience and posts thus far...