mkppo

So I got notified by the SA in UK that the '22 cayenne configurator is now up. Was really hoping for the facelift but sadly it's pretty much the same. Then started configuring it and stumbled across something which piqued my interest (and really hope it's not a typo from Porsche's part). See this:



I know that the Panamera's come with this gearbox but Porsche always maintained that for towing reasons, they are sticking to the standard torque converter. The SA over here says he knows nothing about this development so was wondering if anyone's heard anything about this.

ilovegt

LOVE PDK. Hope it's true

Fahrfun

Very interesting report. In this MY order sheet transition time, can’t guarantee this surprising change will stick... but here is what I found on the German and Swiss site configurators (French and German languages): 8-speed PDK transmission showing on the hybrid wagons and coupes only (base and turbo versions thereof) at this moment. Still the ZF on the US site for same models at this time. Schockingly to me, on the two aforementioned euro sites, the tow rating (braked) is still 3500 kg (7700 lbs)!! There goes that argument if true. But it’s early in the schedule and all that can be said right now without confirmation from the source is what we read on the site. The rest would be speculation. Great teaser though and thanks for reporting!

jamtinge

Probably the same mistake as before. They made the same mistake when they first introduced the coupe version. I remember it as i had to confirm it with the dealership.

CanuckGT4

Highly likely an oversight due to towing capacity.

daveo4porsche

I’m not up to speed on the issues - is PDK not suitable for towing? is that what everyone is saying - sorry for being late to this conversation…

icemang

Porsche has claimed that they'd have to lower the towing capacity if they went to PDK.

Fahrfun

May be not exactly “unsuitable” but certainly at possibly much reduced capacity to tow compared to viscous torque converter. A PDK is essentially an automated dry clutch transmission so the engagement is dry friction. This can generate a lot of heat if the driver “rides” on it under tow load at near idle speed without letting the clutch fully engage and once this heat is excessive it can destroy it. Now maybe there are built in safeguards to prevent overheating but regardless, something would have to give and the pdk approach might be more costly to the owner under heavy towing and/or advertised off-roading in terms of recurring wear and tear. Now if the tow rating is reduced to Macan levels, then chances are it would be alright even if inadvertently abused qualitatively speaking. But my personal guess is one factor Porsche considered was their target of a high tow rating suitable for the class market of this vehicle. Savage geese’s YouTube video on the Cayenne S coupe included lots of Porsche technical briefing/marketing charts on the Cayenne in general and I noticed one in particular that showed five objectives they wanted to excel in to make this the most competent all around vehicle in its class. These objectives included best tow rating and off road capability, along with highest highway comfort and track capability if I recall correctly. Whether intended just for bragging rights or legitimate purpose... that may have played a role in selecting the torque converter unit. Just speculation on my part.

daveo4porsche

thank you @Fahrfun - I am late to the convesation and I never thought of that issue - I’m up to speed now - this is going to be interesting to watch play out - maybe they have improved the PDK design specifically for the Cayenne -and we could have both a PDK AND high tow rating - I know the Tow rating for the Cayenne personally interests me cause I could tow my GT3 to the track - which is a possible use case for me in the future.

ipse dixit

Would the hybrid system mitigate some of the heat generated under load?

Fahrfun

That’s an excellent question and the only reason I’ve even been scratching my head over that one at all is because I’m an eternal optimist hoping they’ve figured out something no one has implemented yet... and that we all want! Please don’t take my word for it because I don’t know but, assuming the hybrid configuration of the electric/starter combo motor placed between the IC engine in front and the pdk transmission behind, what if they figured out some sort of “transitionary” coupling trickery between said electric motor and ICE that would take on the job of slow idle motion under tow load while allowing the dry clutch to independently lock in 100% right at the get go and thus eliminate the objectionable prolonged clutch slip issue? Once the vehicle speeds up, standard normal operation and load handling during subsequent gear changes would resume. Anyway, it’s once again just speculation on my part fueled by some hope they could offer this next level experience. But at the same time, we could wake up tomorrow and find their websites corrected, as mentioned by someone else earlier, and all this enchanting discussion null and void :-)

Needsdecaf

I highly doubt this is accurate.

And as much as I'm a fan of PDK, I would say "no thanks" in a Cayenne. In a Macan, sure. But the tradeoff in low speed / traffic jerky engagement is simply not worth the minor improvement in shift speed. Sorry, it's a Cayenne. Not a 911. Or even a Macan, as I stated.

I base this on roughly 1,000 miles behind the wheel of the 8 speed PDK in the current Panamera. As well as daily driving a GTi DSG in traffic. I have enough dual clutch experience to understand the limitations.

icemang

I drove a PDK for 11 years before I bought the Cayenne and they are definitely not smooth nor fun in slow-moving traffic.

Turns out neither is my new Cayenne S, but that's a whole different story.

justabout

slow-moving traffic on a steep hill is especially fun with a PDK

aigle836

On the Canadian Configurator, the Cayenne Hybrid are with 8 speed PDK also and the other Cayenne are with the 8 speed Tiptronic S.
So clearly related to the Hybrid.
But then the maximum towing for the Hybrid is 3000 kg instead of 3500 kg.
I have towed thousand of km with my Cayenne Turbo 2014 with my closed trailer with car at close to 3500 kg.
I am looking at the Turbo S E-Hybrd, but I will have to check that lower towing limit.