Bizarre Situation
11-09-2023, 08:57 PM
#1
Bizarre Situation
Hi All,
New owner here and at a complete loss so figured I’d try the forums. I recently purchased a 2022 CPO Cayenne S with ~14k miles (end of Sept). In total, I drove the car on 5 separate occasions from date of purchase and put about 400 miles on it.
Around mid Oct, I drove the car to EWR airport to pick up the in laws. On my return home on the turnpike, the car gave the engine temp too high warning. I was at a part of the turnpike with no real shoulder and almost to my exit. So I drove it ~50mph til my exit (maybe 5 minutes). Around this point, I got an engine oil temp too high warning. After exiting the turnpike, and at the first red light, the auto start/stop flashed malfunction (it was off), then I got oil pressure low warning light. I was on an incline and the car sputtered / died. I then tried to restart the engine, which took about two tries to try and limp the car into the next parking lot. I made it maybe half a mile going uphill before the engine completely blew, white smoke, steam, and black smoke. The cabin wreaked of oil and fluids. I was able to call Porsche roadside, but also needed to call 911 because the car broke down in a dangerous part of road. The cop got a different tow company to bring my car to my local North Jersey Porsche dealer. This was a Saturday evening.
On Monday, I was able to speak with a service advisor and told they’d be in touch once they had a chance to look at the car. Initial diagnose, engine was completely blown. The coolant tank would not hold any coolant and fluids were everywhere in the engine bay. They thought it’s be normal warranty replacement and told me to sit tight.
About a week later, the SA called and asked if I had poured any water into the coolant tank or driven thru any deep puddles. I assured him I hadn’t and did not have the car long enough to drive much (still temp tags).
Another week later, the SA called again and said they couldn’t warranty my car because it was obviously driven into a deep puddle or flooded. They said they drained the oil tank and found quarts upon quarts of freshwater. I was adamant with the dealer that I never drove the car in rain, much less a small pond.
I was finally able to go to the dealer to meet with the Service manager, shop foreman, and head tech to go over the car (still waiting on the pics and videos). They showed me the drainage of the oil. Initially it was a brown mushy liquid, but then clear water came out for a solid 10-15 seconds. Then the black engine oil proceeded to leak out. They said they also saw that the air intake filters were wet and water must’ve been ingested thru the intakes and gotten into the turbo, intercooler, etc.
I am adamant in the fact that I never drove the car in rain or a deep puddle in my 20 days of ownership. I tried to show them my Ring camera videos of the times the car left my garage (5 times) that synched with the trip data on my Porsche App. The night I drove to EWR it was 55 degree and clear. Roads were dry. I also brought my EZ pass history, phone records, etc to try and show there was no way I detoured away from the trip to the airport to drive into a puddle. The dealer just said that Porsche will deny the claim because of the large amounts of water present and on the air filter. They suggested I just try and claim my auto insurance.
Prior to my drive to the airport, I drove the car back from philly on a business trip that was mostly highway driving and ~100miles. Car was in my garage after that.
I still need to call PCNA, but I’m presently very perplexed as to why that much clear water could’ve come out of my engine.
at this point, I think I probably need to find a lawyer to prove that I didn’t drive thru water, but i’m reaching out here for any help or suggestions otherwise.
thanks for your time
New owner here and at a complete loss so figured I’d try the forums. I recently purchased a 2022 CPO Cayenne S with ~14k miles (end of Sept). In total, I drove the car on 5 separate occasions from date of purchase and put about 400 miles on it.
Around mid Oct, I drove the car to EWR airport to pick up the in laws. On my return home on the turnpike, the car gave the engine temp too high warning. I was at a part of the turnpike with no real shoulder and almost to my exit. So I drove it ~50mph til my exit (maybe 5 minutes). Around this point, I got an engine oil temp too high warning. After exiting the turnpike, and at the first red light, the auto start/stop flashed malfunction (it was off), then I got oil pressure low warning light. I was on an incline and the car sputtered / died. I then tried to restart the engine, which took about two tries to try and limp the car into the next parking lot. I made it maybe half a mile going uphill before the engine completely blew, white smoke, steam, and black smoke. The cabin wreaked of oil and fluids. I was able to call Porsche roadside, but also needed to call 911 because the car broke down in a dangerous part of road. The cop got a different tow company to bring my car to my local North Jersey Porsche dealer. This was a Saturday evening.
On Monday, I was able to speak with a service advisor and told they’d be in touch once they had a chance to look at the car. Initial diagnose, engine was completely blown. The coolant tank would not hold any coolant and fluids were everywhere in the engine bay. They thought it’s be normal warranty replacement and told me to sit tight.
About a week later, the SA called and asked if I had poured any water into the coolant tank or driven thru any deep puddles. I assured him I hadn’t and did not have the car long enough to drive much (still temp tags).
Another week later, the SA called again and said they couldn’t warranty my car because it was obviously driven into a deep puddle or flooded. They said they drained the oil tank and found quarts upon quarts of freshwater. I was adamant with the dealer that I never drove the car in rain, much less a small pond.
I was finally able to go to the dealer to meet with the Service manager, shop foreman, and head tech to go over the car (still waiting on the pics and videos). They showed me the drainage of the oil. Initially it was a brown mushy liquid, but then clear water came out for a solid 10-15 seconds. Then the black engine oil proceeded to leak out. They said they also saw that the air intake filters were wet and water must’ve been ingested thru the intakes and gotten into the turbo, intercooler, etc.
I am adamant in the fact that I never drove the car in rain or a deep puddle in my 20 days of ownership. I tried to show them my Ring camera videos of the times the car left my garage (5 times) that synched with the trip data on my Porsche App. The night I drove to EWR it was 55 degree and clear. Roads were dry. I also brought my EZ pass history, phone records, etc to try and show there was no way I detoured away from the trip to the airport to drive into a puddle. The dealer just said that Porsche will deny the claim because of the large amounts of water present and on the air filter. They suggested I just try and claim my auto insurance.
Prior to my drive to the airport, I drove the car back from philly on a business trip that was mostly highway driving and ~100miles. Car was in my garage after that.
I still need to call PCNA, but I’m presently very perplexed as to why that much clear water could’ve come out of my engine.
at this point, I think I probably need to find a lawyer to prove that I didn’t drive thru water, but i’m reaching out here for any help or suggestions otherwise.
thanks for your time
11-09-2023, 10:42 PM
#3
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I had to deal with PCNA due to a blown engine and I can tell it's more fun to prep for a colonoscopy.
Arbitration takes place at the dealer and 90-95% of the time sides with the factory, caveat that it varies from state to state. The evidence burden should be on their end, but that's not how they act. Having all this evidence you have may not be enough as their arguments can sometimes run in the side of fantasy.
Unfortunately, it's an uphill battle as the dealer won't bat for you due to fear to be stuck with the bill. They'll likely (if not already) call the local rep that will (or did) deny coverage. This way the dealer is an innocent bystander that can't do anything about it.
As the car is only 20 days in your possession, check the local laws and see if you have any protection, normally not.
Once you call PCNA, the first person to answer is really nice and it will bring your hopes up. 2 or 3 days later you will get an email with a person assigned to deny, I mean, respond your warranty claims. This person will call the dealer first and get their version. In all likelihood they will back the dealer.
From the technical standpoint, I would ask for a pressure test. Maybe the gasket gave up and mixed oil and water. Any mechanic worth its salt would know that. Don't count on CPO being reliable. It's not worth the paper it's written. I had cars that were CPO after I traded with aftermarket brakes, worn track tires, tuning etc. a friend almost lost its car when a aftermarket wheel crumbled during a track day, also CPO.
Perhaps you have better luck, but be prepared. Start the arbitration sooner than later. There's a bunch of contacts from upper management throughout the internets, but I have my doubts those are the actual people answering. Maybe worth a try.
In the end, VW is a mean mistress when it comes to high cost warranty claims. Good luck!
Arbitration takes place at the dealer and 90-95% of the time sides with the factory, caveat that it varies from state to state. The evidence burden should be on their end, but that's not how they act. Having all this evidence you have may not be enough as their arguments can sometimes run in the side of fantasy.
Unfortunately, it's an uphill battle as the dealer won't bat for you due to fear to be stuck with the bill. They'll likely (if not already) call the local rep that will (or did) deny coverage. This way the dealer is an innocent bystander that can't do anything about it.
As the car is only 20 days in your possession, check the local laws and see if you have any protection, normally not.
Once you call PCNA, the first person to answer is really nice and it will bring your hopes up. 2 or 3 days later you will get an email with a person assigned to deny, I mean, respond your warranty claims. This person will call the dealer first and get their version. In all likelihood they will back the dealer.
From the technical standpoint, I would ask for a pressure test. Maybe the gasket gave up and mixed oil and water. Any mechanic worth its salt would know that. Don't count on CPO being reliable. It's not worth the paper it's written. I had cars that were CPO after I traded with aftermarket brakes, worn track tires, tuning etc. a friend almost lost its car when a aftermarket wheel crumbled during a track day, also CPO.
Perhaps you have better luck, but be prepared. Start the arbitration sooner than later. There's a bunch of contacts from upper management throughout the internets, but I have my doubts those are the actual people answering. Maybe worth a try.
In the end, VW is a mean mistress when it comes to high cost warranty claims. Good luck!
Last edited by John Mclane; 11-09-2023 at 10:47 PM.
11-09-2023, 10:46 PM
#4
Drifting
I'm sorry this has happened to you. I'd find a specialist right away that deals with insurance claims and investigations and have an independent investigator look at the car. if you drove through deep water there would be water elsewhere (in the doors, under the floor, carpets, etc.?) or elsewhere. You can "100% go legal" but you'll need a foundation from an expert that backs up your position. Remember, you will be the plaintiff and will have to show "on the preponderance of evidence" that you did not cause the damage. Without that, you'll fail. At the same time, I'd get your insurance company involved. Why? If this was some accident or natural disaster, they'll need to understand the condition of the car and how it might of happened to see if your all perils will cover you. Let us know how you make out.
11-09-2023, 11:17 PM
#5
Hi All,
New owner here and at a complete loss so figured I’d try the forums. I recently purchased a 2022 CPO Cayenne S with ~14k miles (end of Sept). In total, I drove the car on 5 separate occasions from date of purchase and put about 400 miles on it.
Around mid Oct, I drove the car to EWR airport to pick up the in laws. On my return home on the turnpike, the car gave the engine temp too high warning. I was at a part of the turnpike with no real shoulder and almost to my exit. So I drove it ~50mph til my exit (maybe 5 minutes). Around this point, I got an engine oil temp too high warning. After exiting the turnpike, and at the first red light, the auto start/stop flashed malfunction (it was off), then I got oil pressure low warning light. I was on an incline and the car sputtered / died. I then tried to restart the engine, which took about two tries to try and limp the car into the next parking lot. I made it maybe half a mile going uphill before the engine completely blew, white smoke, steam, and black smoke. The cabin wreaked of oil and fluids. I was able to call Porsche roadside, but also needed to call 911 because the car broke down in a dangerous part of road. The cop got a different tow company to bring my car to my local North Jersey Porsche dealer. This was a Saturday evening.
On Monday, I was able to speak with a service advisor and told they’d be in touch once they had a chance to look at the car. Initial diagnose, engine was completely blown. The coolant tank would not hold any coolant and fluids were everywhere in the engine bay. They thought it’s be normal warranty replacement and told me to sit tight.
About a week later, the SA called and asked if I had poured any water into the coolant tank or driven thru any deep puddles. I assured him I hadn’t and did not have the car long enough to drive much (still temp tags).
Another week later, the SA called again and said they couldn’t warranty my car because it was obviously driven into a deep puddle or flooded. They said they drained the oil tank and found quarts upon quarts of freshwater. I was adamant with the dealer that I never drove the car in rain, much less a small pond.
I was finally able to go to the dealer to meet with the Service manager, shop foreman, and head tech to go over the car (still waiting on the pics and videos). They showed me the drainage of the oil. Initially it was a brown mushy liquid, but then clear water came out for a solid 10-15 seconds. Then the black engine oil proceeded to leak out. They said they also saw that the air intake filters were wet and water must’ve been ingested thru the intakes and gotten into the turbo, intercooler, etc.
I am adamant in the fact that I never drove the car in rain or a deep puddle in my 20 days of ownership. I tried to show them my Ring camera videos of the times the car left my garage (5 times) that synched with the trip data on my Porsche App. The night I drove to EWR it was 55 degree and clear. Roads were dry. I also brought my EZ pass history, phone records, etc to try and show there was no way I detoured away from the trip to the airport to drive into a puddle. The dealer just said that Porsche will deny the claim because of the large amounts of water present and on the air filter. They suggested I just try and claim my auto insurance.
Prior to my drive to the airport, I drove the car back from philly on a business trip that was mostly highway driving and ~100miles. Car was in my garage after that.
I still need to call PCNA, but I’m presently very perplexed as to why that much clear water could’ve come out of my engine.
at this point, I think I probably need to find a lawyer to prove that I didn’t drive thru water, but i’m reaching out here for any help or suggestions otherwise.
thanks for your time
New owner here and at a complete loss so figured I’d try the forums. I recently purchased a 2022 CPO Cayenne S with ~14k miles (end of Sept). In total, I drove the car on 5 separate occasions from date of purchase and put about 400 miles on it.
Around mid Oct, I drove the car to EWR airport to pick up the in laws. On my return home on the turnpike, the car gave the engine temp too high warning. I was at a part of the turnpike with no real shoulder and almost to my exit. So I drove it ~50mph til my exit (maybe 5 minutes). Around this point, I got an engine oil temp too high warning. After exiting the turnpike, and at the first red light, the auto start/stop flashed malfunction (it was off), then I got oil pressure low warning light. I was on an incline and the car sputtered / died. I then tried to restart the engine, which took about two tries to try and limp the car into the next parking lot. I made it maybe half a mile going uphill before the engine completely blew, white smoke, steam, and black smoke. The cabin wreaked of oil and fluids. I was able to call Porsche roadside, but also needed to call 911 because the car broke down in a dangerous part of road. The cop got a different tow company to bring my car to my local North Jersey Porsche dealer. This was a Saturday evening.
On Monday, I was able to speak with a service advisor and told they’d be in touch once they had a chance to look at the car. Initial diagnose, engine was completely blown. The coolant tank would not hold any coolant and fluids were everywhere in the engine bay. They thought it’s be normal warranty replacement and told me to sit tight.
About a week later, the SA called and asked if I had poured any water into the coolant tank or driven thru any deep puddles. I assured him I hadn’t and did not have the car long enough to drive much (still temp tags).
Another week later, the SA called again and said they couldn’t warranty my car because it was obviously driven into a deep puddle or flooded. They said they drained the oil tank and found quarts upon quarts of freshwater. I was adamant with the dealer that I never drove the car in rain, much less a small pond.
I was finally able to go to the dealer to meet with the Service manager, shop foreman, and head tech to go over the car (still waiting on the pics and videos). They showed me the drainage of the oil. Initially it was a brown mushy liquid, but then clear water came out for a solid 10-15 seconds. Then the black engine oil proceeded to leak out. They said they also saw that the air intake filters were wet and water must’ve been ingested thru the intakes and gotten into the turbo, intercooler, etc.
I am adamant in the fact that I never drove the car in rain or a deep puddle in my 20 days of ownership. I tried to show them my Ring camera videos of the times the car left my garage (5 times) that synched with the trip data on my Porsche App. The night I drove to EWR it was 55 degree and clear. Roads were dry. I also brought my EZ pass history, phone records, etc to try and show there was no way I detoured away from the trip to the airport to drive into a puddle. The dealer just said that Porsche will deny the claim because of the large amounts of water present and on the air filter. They suggested I just try and claim my auto insurance.
Prior to my drive to the airport, I drove the car back from philly on a business trip that was mostly highway driving and ~100miles. Car was in my garage after that.
I still need to call PCNA, but I’m presently very perplexed as to why that much clear water could’ve come out of my engine.
at this point, I think I probably need to find a lawyer to prove that I didn’t drive thru water, but i’m reaching out here for any help or suggestions otherwise.
thanks for your time
Then, I would say that your engine blew up catastrophically internally and the radiator fluid was able to enter the engine, oil would have leaked out of the broken engine, and cause what you saw.
The clear liquid in the engine was the antifreeze 50/50 escaping through the broken engine and hitting the exhaust manifolds/pipes, and where the water found in the engine was heated vapor and antifreeze that concentrated inside the engine once it cooled.
The filter wet was just the steam coming out through the air intake and condensating around the air filter making it wet.
You said that there was a white smoke(vapor), black smoke(engine oil on exhaust, etc.), etc., which corroborates the latter assumptions. You need the expert to test if the liquid was antifreeze.
A blown defective engine failure pattern is different from a flooded engine failure pattern, and more if you were just driving on the highway for a long time. If there was water inside your engine, you would have steam coming out while you were driving a long distance and not just when it failed catastrophically.
Since engine/electronic defects show in the first driving of engine/vehicles, I would suggest going to a lawyer and having a post-mortem specialist determine if the engine disintegrated from the inside out because of an assembly defect..
If you are innocent, don't let a going cheap crooked company/dealer hook you on the entire price of their defective vehicle.
Find an automotive forensic expert that can do the professional post-mortem analysis of the engine to see what caused the catastrophic failure while you were driving..
From your description on all the details on how it failed, the expert can use that information and his forensic analysis to reconstruct what happened to the engine.
Talk to the lawyer to see if you need to tow your vehicle from the dealer lot asap and don't mentioned what I mentioned here until you talk to a lawyer..
Last edited by PorscheACC; 11-09-2023 at 11:19 PM.
11-09-2023, 11:45 PM
#6
If your vehicle never drove over water and you never added water to the engine, etc.. etc..
Then, I would say that your engine blew up catastrophically internally and the radiator fluid was able to enter the engine, oil would have leaked out of the broken engine, and cause what you saw.
The clear liquid in the engine was the antifreeze 50/50 escaping through the broken engine and hitting the exhaust manifolds/pipes, and where the water found in the engine was heated vapor and antifreeze that concentrated inside the engine once it cooled.
The filter wet was just the steam coming out through the air intake and condensating around the air filter making it wet.
You said that there was a white smoke(vapor), black smoke(engine oil on exhaust, etc.), etc., which corroborates the latter assumptions. You need the expert to test if the liquid was antifreeze.
A blown defective engine failure pattern is different from a flooded engine failure pattern, and more if you were just driving on the highway for a long time. If there was water inside your engine, you would have steam coming out while you were driving a long distance and not just when it failed catastrophically.
Since engine/electronic defects show in the first driving of engine/vehicles, I would suggest going to a lawyer and having a post-mortem specialist determine if the engine disintegrated from the inside out because of an assembly defect..
If you are innocent, don't let a going cheap crooked company/dealer hook you on the entire price of their defective vehicle.
Find an automotive forensic expert that can do the professional post-mortem analysis of the engine to see what caused the catastrophic failure while you were driving..
From your description on all the details on how it failed, the expert can use that information and his forensic analysis to reconstruct what happened to the engine.
Talk to the lawyer to see if you need to tow your vehicle from the dealer lot asap and don't mentioned what I mentioned here until you talk to a lawyer..
Then, I would say that your engine blew up catastrophically internally and the radiator fluid was able to enter the engine, oil would have leaked out of the broken engine, and cause what you saw.
The clear liquid in the engine was the antifreeze 50/50 escaping through the broken engine and hitting the exhaust manifolds/pipes, and where the water found in the engine was heated vapor and antifreeze that concentrated inside the engine once it cooled.
The filter wet was just the steam coming out through the air intake and condensating around the air filter making it wet.
You said that there was a white smoke(vapor), black smoke(engine oil on exhaust, etc.), etc., which corroborates the latter assumptions. You need the expert to test if the liquid was antifreeze.
A blown defective engine failure pattern is different from a flooded engine failure pattern, and more if you were just driving on the highway for a long time. If there was water inside your engine, you would have steam coming out while you were driving a long distance and not just when it failed catastrophically.
Since engine/electronic defects show in the first driving of engine/vehicles, I would suggest going to a lawyer and having a post-mortem specialist determine if the engine disintegrated from the inside out because of an assembly defect..
If you are innocent, don't let a going cheap crooked company/dealer hook you on the entire price of their defective vehicle.
Find an automotive forensic expert that can do the professional post-mortem analysis of the engine to see what caused the catastrophic failure while you were driving..
From your description on all the details on how it failed, the expert can use that information and his forensic analysis to reconstruct what happened to the engine.
Talk to the lawyer to see if you need to tow your vehicle from the dealer lot asap and don't mentioned what I mentioned here until you talk to a lawyer..
11-10-2023, 12:52 AM
#7
Instructor
It isn’t really a bizarre situation. If the seal fails, coolant, not water, ends up in the engine. When the engine turns, the oil and coolant mix into something that resembles chocolate milk. Go ahead, ask me how I know! The engine can actually run for a bit on that mixture, actually for longer than a bit until physics prevails on the pistons. It will smoke and misbehave as the coolant heats up and finds ways to escape under pressure. So that part makes sense. The water would also not be cleanly separated from the oil like what you said came out because the engine is turning.
What doesn’t make sense is that you have water, clear water in there. Unless there was water in the radiator instead of coolant, possible but unlikely, there isn’t an internal source of freshwater in these cars that I am aware of. So it must have been ingested from an external source. If the car was CPO’d. Then that eliminates water in the radiator. It would be coolant topped up to the right level.
You don’t have many logical options left to go with for explaining how fresh water is in the engine, unmixed. You are going to need a very skilled lawyer to twist that into something that Porsche would accept and pay for.
Best of luck and keep us posted.
What doesn’t make sense is that you have water, clear water in there. Unless there was water in the radiator instead of coolant, possible but unlikely, there isn’t an internal source of freshwater in these cars that I am aware of. So it must have been ingested from an external source. If the car was CPO’d. Then that eliminates water in the radiator. It would be coolant topped up to the right level.
You don’t have many logical options left to go with for explaining how fresh water is in the engine, unmixed. You are going to need a very skilled lawyer to twist that into something that Porsche would accept and pay for.
Best of luck and keep us posted.
Last edited by Vapordan; 11-10-2023 at 01:02 AM.
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WasabiPeas (11-30-2023)
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11-10-2023, 12:54 AM
#8
Race Car
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
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You drove 5 minutes on a hot engine, that was a mistake, when you get a hot engine warning you need to shut it down immediately. Modern engines cannot tolerate that and will self-destruct as you discovered. Water likely was the result of the head gaskets blowing and its really coolant. They cannot really determine "Fresh" water when draining from an engine, nor can you "prove" you didn't drive through water. They can, however, determine the engine was heat seized. That's not a warranty item, you are probably going to have to buy a new long block and they are expensive. You might can find one out of recycler should you go that route.
I seriously doubt an attorney is going to prevail, you cannot ignore a temp warning and keep driving, then expect a CPO warranty to cover it. An attorney will just cost you a few more thousand on top of an engine. Porsche NA has more money than you for attorneys and more patience as well. Your best bet is to get the GM of the dealership involved and see if you can negotiate a price for a repair if you want a new engine in the unit.
Or, you can do what i did. My wife drove our 2020 Ford Ranger 2 miles after an oil filter failure (due to nut using a factory oil filter on an oil change) and the engine seized when the filter came off the block and pumped out all the oil in seconds. Not a warranty claim. Rather than deal with a new engine replacement ($ 14,000) I simply traded it in at the Ford Dealer "as is" on a new one they had on the lot. The dealer can put a new engine in at half the price I would pay as a retail customer, they were happy to do that as they moved a new unit - got a really good trade in price and I came out better than a repair. Worth a try. Good luck
BTW, if you decide you do want to go the legal route, you should ask the mods to delete this thread as. you have admitted you drove the vehicle on hot engine and that won't look good if they find this thread.
I seriously doubt an attorney is going to prevail, you cannot ignore a temp warning and keep driving, then expect a CPO warranty to cover it. An attorney will just cost you a few more thousand on top of an engine. Porsche NA has more money than you for attorneys and more patience as well. Your best bet is to get the GM of the dealership involved and see if you can negotiate a price for a repair if you want a new engine in the unit.
Or, you can do what i did. My wife drove our 2020 Ford Ranger 2 miles after an oil filter failure (due to nut using a factory oil filter on an oil change) and the engine seized when the filter came off the block and pumped out all the oil in seconds. Not a warranty claim. Rather than deal with a new engine replacement ($ 14,000) I simply traded it in at the Ford Dealer "as is" on a new one they had on the lot. The dealer can put a new engine in at half the price I would pay as a retail customer, they were happy to do that as they moved a new unit - got a really good trade in price and I came out better than a repair. Worth a try. Good luck
BTW, if you decide you do want to go the legal route, you should ask the mods to delete this thread as. you have admitted you drove the vehicle on hot engine and that won't look good if they find this thread.
11-10-2023, 01:18 AM
#9
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I did pretty much the above. I trade the 911 into the demo I had while things were ongoing, market price minus estimated fix and some discount on the car I end up getting.
It was for the best, the car was sitting waiting for parts for about 6 months and i see monthly visits from the current owner to the dealer. The car allegedly had lost all warranty bc of the tune, yet it was certified by the dealer that bought it in an auction. Tells something about CPO...
Even if they fix it, gotta ask yourself if it's worth the headache. PCNA might be able to pull temperatures vs warnings and add that to the argument, as mentioned above.
It was for the best, the car was sitting waiting for parts for about 6 months and i see monthly visits from the current owner to the dealer. The car allegedly had lost all warranty bc of the tune, yet it was certified by the dealer that bought it in an auction. Tells something about CPO...
Even if they fix it, gotta ask yourself if it's worth the headache. PCNA might be able to pull temperatures vs warnings and add that to the argument, as mentioned above.
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drcollie (11-10-2023)
11-10-2023, 02:41 AM
#10
My opinion…
1. A car is designed to drive through puddles. Heavy rain storms are an event and we can end up driving through water for hours on a long trip. Small puddles form on older roads in the recessed tire tracks.
2. In order to ingest very much water into the crankcase it would kill the engine as it passed through the cylinders. At a minimum the engine would run rough and probably leave signs of rust on the rings.
IMO, the Tech is either lazy or they don’t want the hassle of dealing with Porsche…Porsche won’t replace the engine without being convinced of the cause being eligible for warranty.
While you might be guilty of not stopping soon enough, the car malfunctioned in some way. If there wasn’t a safe place to stop that mitigates continued driving to a point.
What caused the warning light in the first place? If it was loss of coolant then that’s on the owner unless there’s a physical defect like a cracked head or cylinder wall. It’s unusual for a car to lose that much fluid without some source of the leak. .
You probably have an uphill battle but that doesn’t excuse the Dealer’s poor diagnosis. A second opinion might be in order because this will be costly and time consuming as others have suggested.
1. A car is designed to drive through puddles. Heavy rain storms are an event and we can end up driving through water for hours on a long trip. Small puddles form on older roads in the recessed tire tracks.
2. In order to ingest very much water into the crankcase it would kill the engine as it passed through the cylinders. At a minimum the engine would run rough and probably leave signs of rust on the rings.
IMO, the Tech is either lazy or they don’t want the hassle of dealing with Porsche…Porsche won’t replace the engine without being convinced of the cause being eligible for warranty.
While you might be guilty of not stopping soon enough, the car malfunctioned in some way. If there wasn’t a safe place to stop that mitigates continued driving to a point.
What caused the warning light in the first place? If it was loss of coolant then that’s on the owner unless there’s a physical defect like a cracked head or cylinder wall. It’s unusual for a car to lose that much fluid without some source of the leak. .
You probably have an uphill battle but that doesn’t excuse the Dealer’s poor diagnosis. A second opinion might be in order because this will be costly and time consuming as others have suggested.
11-10-2023, 09:10 AM
#11
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
In my case, the dealer didn't investigate, neither did the factory. They cheap out and count on the owner folding and arbitration working their ways It's a crappy situation where if you don't spend in reports and lawyers, you're at their will. VW's will is to spend as little as possible.
Check your state laws in regards to lawsuit vs arbitration.
Check your state laws in regards to lawsuit vs arbitration.
11-10-2023, 09:34 AM
#12
Burning Brakes
Who is to say the dealer didn't have a puddle that they drove it through (or during towing) that was part of the dealer's report of water intrusion?
The "chain of custody" isn't exactly airtight (or waterproof...too soon? LOL).
The "chain of custody" isn't exactly airtight (or waterproof...too soon? LOL).
11-10-2023, 10:17 AM
#13
Instructor
11-10-2023, 10:30 AM
#14
Drifting
For an external water source to do that much damage it would have had to be driven through a lake. The OP was driving down the highway when it failed. Tat rules out the puddle theory - it's not going to ingest a bunch of water and then continue to operate down a highway. As someone wrote above, I'd haul the car out of the dealership and get a forensic specialist to determine what happened. If it is an internal failure, speak to the dealer and Porsche. if they won't accept the findings, sue them unless you think it will cost more (if you lose) than paying for the engine repair on your own.
11-10-2023, 12:45 PM
#15
Contrary to appearances, this shouldn't be difficult to determine. If the engine fails as a result of flooding after floating in a puddle, the failure occurs immediately. The engine simply sucks in water instead of air, and since the water does not compress in the cylinder, the engine explodes and the connecting rods bend or crack.
However, the ingress of coolant may not cause an immediate failure. The coolant mixes with the oil and slowly damages the engine, causing it to stop or even explode.
I would order an analysis of the fluid found in the oil pan. If it turns out that it is coolant, the matter is simple. However, if it turns out to be clean water, the case will be much more difficult to win.
However, the ingress of coolant may not cause an immediate failure. The coolant mixes with the oil and slowly damages the engine, causing it to stop or even explode.
I would order an analysis of the fluid found in the oil pan. If it turns out that it is coolant, the matter is simple. However, if it turns out to be clean water, the case will be much more difficult to win.
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