Needsdecaf

You don't NEED to ever paint correct to install a coating. It is entirely optional.

Coating is just a super-duper form of paint protection and gloss enhancer. Longer lasting than any carnauba or synthetic "wax". But if you think of it is the superman version of that, you're not far off.

Getting hung up on SiO2, Graphene....stop falling for the marketing BS.

Needsdecaf

PPF actually hides a lot of minor imperfections. But obviously it's only good at that where you apply it. And it's way cheaper to paint correct the majority of the car than to PPF it. But as a test, my detailer wet sanded a panel with 2000 grit and didn't polish it, but put PPF over top of the sanding marks...and they were invisible. Pretty trick.

ihbond

not sure if you talking my previous post specifically, or in general….….however i was not getting caught up in it..if you watch the video, they prove how the graphene, a single layer of graphite cant be bound successfully to si02…kind of interesting…

stampineer

So I have XPEL Ultimate Plus on my 2024 Cayenne (done in December) and about 5 weeks ago had them Ceramic Coat it. Since my XPEL was full front, hood, mirrors, A-frame and doors (but not rear, roof or back panel) they actually use two different Ceramic coating products (XPEL only warranties apparently certain products). I also had my wheels and brake calibers ceramic coated. For the areas that are and are not XPEL protected I can't tell a difference in beading or shine. We'll see if it endures, but after a year I bring it in and they inspect it (and touch it up) as well as do a full detailing for free and that is only a few hundred each year after so I am ok with that to get 5+ years out of the Ceramic coating!

I drove a 1500 mile 6 colleges in 5 days March break college tour trip with my daughters and when I got back I was amazed. The wash was the easiest wash in my life. I used a soap foamer (looking up SwitchJet Car Wash foam gun on Amazon) to spray Meiguiar's Gold Class car wash (you don't want any products with harsh cleaners or waxes) and after a few seconds I just had to wipe a few of the bugs off the front (notice I said wipe not scrub) and a few areas below the door where there was excess dirt or tar (nothing stuck just didn't come off with rinse and I didn't want to hit it too hard with pressure washer).

I drove quite a bit at dusk and night and there should have been caked on bugs.

Did my second wash yesterday a few weeks later (I want it clean but not every other day clean) and I am perfecting the process further. Since I have a pressure washer I bought quick disconnects so I can just move my hose from foam gun to pressure washer. In total it took me longer to wipe the excess spots of the car with a microfiber cloth than it was the wash and clean it.

I now have 6500 miles on it, and never was able to clean a car so easily!

If you are near Philly area, I got it done at Modern ELIX and they were fantastic. Not only do they have plenty of $500k+ cars they work, but they do a lot of clean up work on older air cooled 911s. Very well run place and highly recommended!

ThomasWShea

my understanding is ceramic only lasts maybe 3 years so i wonder if they are basically re applying at those annual appointments. what is a touch up? i don’t think it would really work that way. it isn’t paint lol

Porsche Newbee

Good info thank you. Going to be doing the same xpel ultimate with my front end as well and ceramic the remainder of car. Detailer stressed that it’s important to bring back for touch ups yearly so I’ll be doing that as well, said people usually just get the ceramic done then never do mtce so it fails quick. My cayennes on the Wolfsburg heading for Halifax. Should be here by the 23rd latest. Straight to the ppf shop once I pick up at Porsche dealer

stampineer

So my understanding is they will hose the car and look at the beading and then reapply the product in areas that are not sufficiently beading. At a microscopic (or macroscopic) level the ceramic coating is just a coating that increases the smoothness and it will wear off in places over time. Wax will come off with scrubbing. Ceramic coatings (to my understanding) will do the same with sufficient rubbing but since they are smoother are most resistent. In theory the need to scrub ceramic coatings is reduced since particles just don't stick well (take my bug example).

Of course there are limits. For example, you have to use "gentle soaps", I can't imagine what my "Meguiar's G180515EU Heavy Duty Foaming Bug Remover" would do to it.... oh and mechanic car washes (you know the brush kind).... forget it

So if it continues to be THIS easy to clean throughout the summer I would be happy. I would be totally fine with them "renewing" any wear areas once a year for a couple $$ to make my life at washing easy. I have learned EASY is better than HARD and I am willing to pay a bit more for it. This is my first foray into ceramic coatings. Also there is the added protection to the XPEL. So XPEL has already saved me twice (two smallish dings were avoided both on mirrors of all things) but as I understand it XPEL is not very hardy against the acid from bugs (or UV).... so with ceramic coating you are basically protecting the XPEL from the acidic items since they don't stick and easily come off as well as giving it UV protection (thus preserving the XPEL integrity and resisting any yellowing).

Ironman88

Regarding the issue of the durability of ceramic coatings, take a look at the video below. "Pan the Organizer" has many YouTube videos on all kinds of auto detailing topics. This video is on "How to Remove a Ceramic Coating". In the video he subjects his own ceramic coated car to a successive range of products with the intent to remove the protective coating. Ultimately, the only way he could remove it was through machine polishing using a compound - and even at that, it required dedicated effort and work.

In my experience with ceramic coatings (through my own use), they hold up for years without the need to reapply. I have found that over time, road film can build up on top of the coating and it's that film that diminishes some of the water beading that is evident when the ceramic coating is new. When the road film is removed (really good hand wash with the right products), the road film is broken down and the water beading is restored.

I would suspect that if your detailer strongly urges you to bring the car in annually for a "touch-up" - that it has more to do with his (or her) desire to sustain a revenue stream from you over time.

craig001

I can't really talk about the coatings. My Cayenne was treated using a ceramic coating at the dealership before I picked it up. Let's just say they did a poor job of correcting the paint or possibly it was in the application process, There are some areas that are questionable. There are odd smudges at the junction of the hood, A-pillar and hood. But I can make a recommendation about window films. My 2016 had 3M Ceramic film installed on all the glass (including the pano-roof) by a 3M ahop. My 2019 has CeramicPro Kavaca film on the glass, This was installed by a contractor at my local P-Car dealership as I wanted a loaner while the Cayenne was there. Windows are tinted to the state legal limits and they would not do the pano-roof in this one due to fears of the glass cracking. After living with the Kavaca film since last summer it's my opinion that the 3M film does a better job of heat rejection (IR rejection). The 3M Crystal film is alleged to have an even higher IR rejection factor. I can't comment on the LLumar or Stek products. So just something to chew on before jumping in.

importtuner

I would rather paint correct, ppf, and ceramic coat than just ceramic coat if ceramic coating is an option. Ceramic does wear out after washes and although you can layer the areas that may need it, fully removing it requires compounding if applied directly to paint. The ppf is a “sacrificial” layer that can easily be removed and replaced if needed.