my first 911

My car is currently at a high end detailer getting PPF over the entire car. My dilemma is weather to pay them to do the ceramic coating when they are done with the film or do it myself. It seems to me new film should eliminate most of the prep work for the coating but maybe I am missing something. I don't love or hate detailing my car. I did ceramic coat my wheels last year so I am somewhat familiar with the process but I have not coated an entire car. The detailer is 20 minutes from my home so as long as the weather is good, it shouldn't get too dirty on my way home if I decide to coat it myself. The coating they are proposing is a 3 year product. If there is a big difference between "professionally installed" or "at home installation" I will have them do it. If their is little or no difference and I can save $1,000 by doing it myself, I may lean that way.

TIA,
Dave

PHX

You can do it yourself for $80-$120 for the product and $20 in microfiber towels with $15 for a nice IPA 6 pack.

Super simple and you have experience already.

I would wipe it down with panel wipe or CarPRo Eraser (or Isopropyl alcohol and water) after you get it home and then install the ceramic coating.

I had my first car 'professionally' done and the last 6 or so I have done myself and there was zero difference in the end result.

Bxstr

Dave - I'd DIY due to the price. I had my film coated while it was at the film installer. I figured since it was only half the car I was having covered in film, it would be $200 max. He charged me almost $300 and said he was giving me a deal since he forgot to include it on the invoice and I mentioned it after the fact. I thought this was way too high. I have no issue paying people for jobs that require a considerable amount of skill. For instance, to someone not into detailing, polishing may be a challenging process. Or to someone not mechanically inclined, doing brakes may be worth paying for. But ceramic coating is a wipe on wipe off product. I've done my current and prior daily driver, I've done a friend's Ferrari and it really is not challenging. The detailer your car is at has a lot of very easy to use products as well.

Carrera-T

If you decide to tackle this on your own, be careful applying ceramic on top of the PPF. Unlike paint, ceramic applied to the PPF does not flash as quickly and requires a bit more care to remove evenly. Be sure to have excellent lighting in your garage and wipe down and buff a couple of extra times, with a concentration of doing the final wipe toward the edge of each panel.

The last thing you want are high spots from the coating, as then you would need to polish the car to remove and try again. And remember that when complete, the car should not be touched and remain inside and dry for at least 24-hours to fully cure. And no car washes for 7-days.

BudgetPlan1

As evidenced by my username, I'm among the most 'frugal' folks you're likely to ever meet. That said, even after applying 30+ different coatings to over 50 or 60 vehicles, when it came time to have my car completely done in PPF and coated, I had the detailer apply the coating.

Despite having extensive experience with a variety of true ceramic coatings, there were a few reasons:

• The car was there and ready to be coated after PPF; no matter how short your drive home is the car will need to be washed and prepped for coating.
• Coating PPF is a bit more of a tricky proposition than bare paint. IF everything goes well, no problems. However, if you do leave a high spot, removing the coating/polishing the panel (the best approach to removing a high spot due to slight darkening effect some coatings have) is not the same as simply polishing a painted panel. Polishing PPF is generally a non-starter if not VERY familiar with the process.
• Penny-wise, pound foolish is not a suitable approach for me on things that 'really matter' like my cars despite my, uh...frugality.
• The intangible benefit of knowing the job is completely done when you pick the car up had value to me, especially when I was picking it up just as Spring arrived and driving season was *finally* here.
• Possible warranty concerns for the underlying PPF if the coating was not done by the PPF installer. If a problem arises down the road and the shop did they entire job, it's their responsibility. If a DIY aspect is thrown into the mix, well...that's where it can get a bit difficult in determining the root cause of the issue.

It's really not even a question of product quality with regards to 'pro' vs 'consumer' coatings; there's a bunch of great coatings available to the home user. It's an overall question of long-term satisfaction and quality. PPF ain't cheap and I'd rather not have to deal with anything when it comes to things like this. With the total cost of jobs like this, I'd rather leave nothing to chance and simply drive away after pickup, ready to enjoy the car as opposed to having to finish the job.

Value is a proposition left to each individual so YMMV. In any event, I hope you enjoy the finished vehicle whichever path you choose!

BoxKing

Don’t apply ceramic over PPF. This defeats the purpose of the self-healing properties built into PPF.
Ceramic scratches, while PPF will self heal, while leaving your car looking scratch/swirl free.

I went back and forth on whether or not I was going to do a Ceramic DIY overtop of PPF, and aside from what I mentioned above, ceramic designed for PPF doesn’t have a stated lifespan of more than 1-year (ish) - probably longer due to most P Cars rarely seeing fowl weather, but I’d rather not be put in a position where there were spots on the car that wore off quicker, in turn requiring a PPF polish to reset the surfaces or yet another ceramic application ($$$$).

My search ended when ExoV5 was released last Spring. This is a ceramic top coat, that can also be applied as a standalone product, with a 2yr life expectancy. Application was extremely easy (following proper prep), and left all my surfaces feeling like liquid glass, even to this day. I do a decon wash once a year to reset the top coat, and Im good to go. The last thing I Ike about a product like this (or similar) is that I can easily remove it with an aggressive decon wash procedure, similar to that of which is followed when getting the surfaces prepped for installation. I’m a product junky, and I would 100% remove ExoV5 in favor of ExoV6 (if ever released), or another like product that catches my eye.

Long story short… Ceramic over PPF = scratches/swirls on your surfaces, unless you have a way to wash you car without introducing them - if so, please share bc its nearly impossible to achieve this time after time. Leave the PPF alone, all you really need is a decent SiO2 topper applied lightly every 2-3 washes. Only reason why I would see doing ceramic over PPF is if you only got a track wrap package; then I’d rather have the other 2/3rds of the car protected in some fashion like ceramic, as the ceramic is better to have swirls on than the paint work.

PHX

I'm sure you know, however this SiO2 topper is just basically a lesser concentration of "ceramic coating", so you are just applying (or the advice is) many layers over time of weakly concentrated "ceramic coating".

Thanks for the ExoV5 quick synopsis as well, that is one I haven't gotten to use yet as the CSL/EXOv4 is holding strong.

I still think the "year" data point the ceramic manufacturers and marketers use is complete bonk. No manufacturer knows where you park your car, how often you use it, what the weather is, and how you wash it even to make that any claims. Cracks me up.

@BudgetPlan1 I remember reading your google drive (or wherever you stored it) lengthy writeup on your car journeys and what you used and how long they lasted (from the Corvette forum). That was good reading when I was starting out into the world of detailing. Loved your work van/truck experiments too! Those were the best.

BoxKing

My last car (daily driver) was ceramic coated (no PPF), and I found that the ceramic coatings required more attention with general maintenance to ensure it works effectively i.e. decontaminating once a quarter to remove fallout. Without doing this, I would see the attributes of the ceramic properties falling off the cliff. The common misconception with ceramic is that its "maintenance free", and allows for easier maintenance, but only when properly cared for. Proper care for ceramic is lost by so many, which is why I suggested an SiO2 as an alternative, since most ppl are also topping their ceramic with a product like this after each wash (unnecessary/waste of product).
Per my suggestion, applying the SiO2 as a standalone over PPF/Ceramic shouldn't be done after every wash, just every 2nd-3rd wash; more in depth, just one spray into a microfiber towel/panel, or maybe two for larger panels and thats it. Many go through an entire bottle in just one month by over-spraying! This only benefits the suppliers, not ones vehicle. I feel this method removes another level of failure for those who may not take care of their ceramic properly... either they dont care to, or they;re not aware of the steps needed to ensure ones coating is at peak performance (this is a majority of the users).

I agree that the suggested lifespan of ceramic to those of us on this forum would be at the very least X2 of the suggested retail ratings.
No pun intended, but there're so many layers of detailing that we could go over. Such as what you mentioned above CSL/ExoV4 combo... if it were me, and I chose to apply CSL on top of PPF, I would 100% apply ExoV5 on top... seems like overkill as thats now 3 layers of "protection" on top of the clear coat, 4 layers if you then use a SiO2 drying aid Lol. But the Exo products then extends the life of the middle layer of ceramic.

For those looking for a simple way to reset your ceramic, and to strip away the thin later of SiO2 for reapplication; try CarPro Descale. I'll foam the car with CarPro Lift first to break down heavy deposits, rinse, then hit the car with a Fallout Remover (spray), followed by using CP Descale for my wash. A 16oz bottle of each should easily last most at least 1-2 years, with the exception of the fallout spray - I tend to go crazy with this stuff, and I use an entire bottle each time I use it.

Carrera-T

@BoxKing (Hey Mike), interesting point regarding ceramic applied on top of PPF. While I can visualize and understand your point that the ceramic adds a layer on top of the film, which then can suffer from swirls and micro-marring, I am not convinced that it actually behaves this way. A couple of observations.

1. Kyle @thelastdetail did a test. He applied a piece of test PPF film on his scrap fender panel. He then applied (2) coats of ceramic and allowed the coating to cure. A few days later, he manually inflicted swirls to the wrapped and coated panel. He then placed the panel outside in the sun, and amazingly enough, the PPF self-healed and the swirls were no longer visible. This may debunk the thought around swirls remaining in the coating, which is on top of the film.

2. On my 2021 Cayman GTS, when I purchased the car, it was ceramic coated. The previous owner did not do a great job with maintenance washes and there were swirls all over the car. Kyle and I did a very light polishing which removed the swirls from what we believe to be the ceramic coating. Knowing how hard Porsche clear coat can be, the polishing effort was just a single/quick pass with a yellow pad and finishing polish, not compound. So, this proves your point, that ceramic adds a layer which can scratch and swirl-up.

But, we have tested the ceramic on top of PPF and self-healing continues to prevail. Hence the reason why we still apply the coating over the complete vehicle (including the PPF) as a standard process.

Great seeing you and the GT4 this past weekend!

BudgetPlan1

Thanks for the kind words, glad you found it interesting! The blog where I kept my rambling notes still exists and it seems folks still run across it each month judging from the traffic stats it still sends me each month 😳

Wanna know how a coating *really* works? Drop it on a whole vehicle and send it out into the world for a year or two! Having a fleet of 25+ test vehicles sure was handy but don’t much miss polishing & prepping Ford Transit vans, especially the long-wheelbase extended ones. 😱

Worthwhile to see what met my needs best though, still diggin’ my favorites that came outta all that work/fun. 😎

my first 911

I bit the bullet and let them do the coating. Very happy with the results.

Carrera-T

Looks amazing! Now you can drive and enjoy.

Matt(inMA)

I had both put on my new Aston Martin Vantage - the results are stunning

SSDVC

The color on that Vantage is AWESOME !