txbdan

Hi all,

I've been using an Aim Solo 2 DL connected to my car's CANBUS along with a SmartyCAM for a couple years. Here are my thoughts on it:

• PRO: Lap timer works well and seems accurate compared to my club's timers
• PRO: Predictive lap timer works well and the LEDs work well to show it
• PRO: It is pretty standard and lots of people at the track are in the ecosystem. We've recently created a club database of track data and its all AIM.
• CON: I find myself not looking at data all that much. It's too much of a hassle to download and update software and dig around, etc. I have some club buddies I share data with and I thought we'd compare a lot and learn a lot, but in practice we just don't.
• CON: The software is PC only and while I have a gaming PC, I mostly use my Mac so that's a pain.
• CON: The SmartyCam video quality is a joke for YouTube and pubic consumption
• CON: Ultimately, I'm not getting the feedback from the system I want. How do I go faster?
• CON: I feel this came from 1995 and am slightly peeved every time I think about what it costs relative to the hardware and software experience.

I've been thinking about simplifying and trying a Garmin Catalyst

• PRO: Seems to have a good UI and clear display
• PRO: Records good video quality
• PRO: Gives you simple and clear actions on how to improve
• PRO: Seems like a modern device and good tech for the buck
• CON: lack of a sharing ecosystem (as far as I know, is there any way to compare data?)
• CON: Maybe not in-depth enough software? (I'm not sure I need anything more in-depth since I hardly used Race Studio to its fullest).
• CON: No inputs for canbus/throttle/brake. How big of a deal is this? I feel like throttle and brake area most of what I look at in my data. I also review fluid temps

I think the Aim ecosystem is pretty well understood. How is everyone liking their Catalysts?

ProCoach

Having sold both, a LOT of both, and having no dog in this fight since I don't sell anything anymore except my time, I think you're thinking correctly.

I have bolded the major reason why folks have done what you are considering.

There is no question you can dig down DEEP into AiM, but I know few who do, especially over the course of the day. Having throttle/brake/steering is helpful, but how much if you are not sure what to do with it or how most usefully to display it?

The Catalyst is by necessity limited in it's capability. It's not 100% reliable, but neither is AIM. That's about the worst criticism I have of it, but that's true of all tech.

AiM, VBOX, MoTeC, Apex Pro are all loggers, recorders of what happened. They don't guide you. You have to collect the data, arrange the data and learn what to do with the data. You can learn, but most people would rather drive.

The Catalyst will help in two ACTIONABLE ways.

First is with real-time audio coaching feedback. Go into settings and enable Advanced Race Coaching, tap the waiver and you're almost done. Next thing is work out a good audio solution. Ear buds, AirPods or simple foam inserts with an extension cord from the device. Make sure it works well on-track. It will validate your best performance, inform you where, when and how you've done better, and constantly crush massive amounts of information including sector times, entry and exit speeds, apex speeds and your use of the width of the track. It will even slice and dice to tell you post-session what approach/geometry/braking yielded you the quickest results for each corner or corner complex.

Second is the post session review. Four sub-topic details for the three lowest hanging opportunities for improvement. Examining speeds, acceleration/braking (done through the accelerometers in the camera and calibrated at setup, all on the tablet) and line can give you a guide, a direction to go the next session. You can even pick one or two tabs to be coached on individually.

I've used accelerometers in lieu of throttle/brakes for a long time. I guess I'm just used to it.

Let us know what you think. Like I said, I don't care what people use, just as long as they use it.

ApexPerformance

Great info as always, Peter!

ProCoach

Thanks! Hope you guys are doing well!

ApexPerformance

Busier than ever! We have cut out a lot of track events but do a few near us throughout the year. Stay well.

amurph182

I tried a catalyst last year and I really didn’t find it terribly helpful, and I went into it from pretty much the same place as the OP. Two general comments, one about where I find my AIM solution to be better and one for where the Catalyst really fell down for me.

- I like the predictive LEDs on the AIM better for telling me where I’m gaining/losing time. I can see some lights out of the corner of my eye and know what’s happening, vs using the Catalyst and having to either read the screen or pay close enough attention to the audio cues to know what’s going on.

- I found the Catalyst feedback to be all over the map and hard to implement in my driving. It was fine for areas where there were large variations in my driving, for example if I would usually brake at 4 but then on one lap waited until 3 and that was faster, it would point that out. But where I was fairly consistent (consistently good or consistently bad, take your pick) or in more complex segments (think the VIR Esses vs braking zone for turn 1) the info was too generic to really help me. When using AIM and RS I can much more easily see all of the relevant inputs and their impact on the time delta vs my reference lap, vs “turn in later” from the Catalyst. Yes, it’s more work in between sessions to look at data on my laptop vs the catalyst but I’ve built that into my routine and in about 10 minutes I can ID the biggest things to work on next session from my AIM data so it’s not THAT much effort.

Not saying that I think the Catalyst is no good, tons of people seem to love it and if Peter thinks so highly of it then it must be pretty damn good. I just didn’t find it to work that great for me compared to my AIM stuff.

ProCoach

Hey, that's why there are so many choices! I don't think one size fits all and I don't think any one data/video system does all it needs to do...

No question you can integrate a 10-minute quick check in AiM, VBOX, Apex Pro, MoTeC and even Cosworth, but the main difference is that YOU, as the analyst, need to prioritize what to work on next. It's easy to pick something that doesn't make as much a difference as something else might. You also want to look at the data to see where you might want to "stand pat," and not push, just to manage risk.

Most folks will pick a few random things out, many who gain even more benefit will look at fewer measures EVERY time and note trends.

It's fun. I'm glad that when I started this journey, these tools were not common or regularly used, and now they are. Thanks for sharing your experience!

ProCoach

I'll only add that the number one thing I'm hired to do with drivers is to comb over all the information collected in order to distill speeds, sector times, brake and throttle application, consistency, track position, geometry, heading change from turn-in to apex, length of apex, evaluating exit traction, all in order to come up with one or two action plans for the next session that, to me, stick out as the lowest hanging fruit.

The goal is to jettison the 85-90% drivers are doing reasonably well, find and focus on the 10-15% that will make a difference, without adding too much risk, if adding any at all. This kind of focus can allow targeted, rapid improvement instead of riding around the same way and expecting a different result.

No matter whether you do that on your own with AiM and other loggers, or use some of the AI in the Catalyst (every solo driver should enable the "Advanced Audio Coaching" to supercharge the feedback and analysis), that's what you want to use data for, IMO.

txbdan

Thanks. Regarding the predictive lap timer, doesn't the screen show red or green? Do the red/green bars move/grow/shrink or something to show the delta?

Carrera51

Well said Peter, as always.

txbdan

I saw that there was an update so now the Catalyst can export overlay'ed video to its SD card. That's good.

Yeh, it sounds like its really an issue of workflow and use case. I'm a pretty techy dude and I love learning and data, but in practice it just hasn't panned out at the track. I'd like to think it would, but now with like 7 years of having data acquisition stuff (I DIY'ed a dash/logger once, RaceCapture Pro, and then Aim) and I can say I just won't be using it much between sessions or even at night at the hotel. *shrug*

Maybe I should also look into the Apex Pro stuff if I want to focus on easy and realtime feedback? I'd need to use my phone as the lap timer display, but maybe that's not so bad.

VBOX I think has realtime feedback? I like its lap timer display, but that's getting a little pricey and "pro" for my needs.

txbdan

Yep. That (plus a predictive lap timer) is all I want. I can't afford you, so I'm hoping virtual-coach can do it. lol.

amurph182

it does show red and green, but my eye picks up the changing LEDs on the SOLO 2 much easily than it does whatever is on the Catalyst screen.

ydd

This is a great summary imho. Thanks for pulling it together.

You're right that the AiM systems are common. Nearly every one of the drivers I coach uses an AiM system and so it should be the ideal setup - but I see the same as you here in the UK - that SO many people never really look at their data.

I also run a Catalyst and had the same reservations are you. It impressed me a lot though tbh. The optimal lap video is super useful. The way it organises the data so effortlessly, knows where the edge of the track is (most of the time) and generally makes using the data it has stored more accessible, is really great. I've never before been able to pull into the pits and whilst my guys were taking tyre pressures, I could review my session, still in the car, still strapped in and still with gloves and helmet on!

I can't hear the coach on track as I've an open top car but still I was able to see how I was doing and go straight back out and do something about it.

My frustrations with the Garmin are that it could be so much more - with little modification.

Primarily this is to do with enabling the garmin to help you work out what you could do, as well as, show you the best of what you have done.

You can still do this - a bit - but only if you have the knowledge. For example, it gives you a long-g trace. I was able to review the trace and realised that my car wasn't reaching its maximum possible peak g in one threshold brake corner. The garmin didn't tell me that but I just knew from looking at the trace, and from using other data systems, that there was more to find - and, without even getting out of my car, I was able to go out and find that lap time straight away.

The other frustration is, like you say, about access to the data. There is no way to get the data off the unit. I have spoken to garmin about this and really am still non-the-wiser about why we can't get at it. There are work arounds via garmin connect but these - low res solutions - are not great. This decision not to release give people access to the data has had some unexpected consequences where I've heard of people loosing data because of an issue with their gamin unit - your data is tied to the specific garmin you own and can't be transferred over even if you take out the hidden memory card.

I'm sure there must be a good reason gamin are not giving access to the data but right now it makes it frustrating to use - even a raw csv data file I'd be happy to take - and creates this risk you'll loose your data records.

I do hope that these two frustrations are alleviated in future - someone here might know more than me about whether this is likely? - because otherwise as the garmin is a really really great device.

For your information, my process at the track - with now having the garmin - involves using the garmin for analysis during the day and then using my other logged data for more involved analysis - say at lunch or in the evenings when there is less time pressure. This works well and I'm super happy I run the Garmin - even though it is massive, heavy and not water proof 🤷‍♂️😊

Thanks again for bring this up. Let us know what you decide.

ProCoach

Yes, the whole screen turns red or green using the same parameters as the +/- predictive on the AiM. The AiM LED's can be set to specific increments, like 0.1, 0.2 or 0.25 seconds for each one. The Catalyst does red or green entire screen and has a big number in the center that's easily readable.



Yes, there is a one button export for the lap, optimal lap or the session with speed, track map, g's and lap time, plus delta on the video, which is REALLY cool.

Workflow is king. Has to work for you!

Apex Pro is good. Real time feedback from the LED's that do what none of the others do. Not predictive, but a gauge of how much tire grip relative to the best measured are you using at any given time. Great way to tune in your butt gyro. The Phone app is very good. Optimal lap contruction is good and in-car display is good. Also, video is possible with an in-app subscription for the Apex Pro. Plus/minus is good. But still a recorder of what happened. You have to parse it.

The latest VBOX Performance Box Touch is pretty incredible and a worthy option if video is taken care of by something else or another camera. It has not only delta-t (plus-minus lap time at any given point) but also delta-v (speed at any given point relative to the best recorded previously at that point). No CAN or OBDII, but it's a great piece of kit for less than the Catalyst. More info here: https://www.vboxmotorsport.co.uk/ind...e-box-touch-us

It can help, a lot. There are quite a few out at membership driving clubs that are used in member cars between in-car instruction to spread the coaches around. They complement each other well.

I have had a fair number of people move this direction from more complicated and involved hardware and software, and they seem to like it.

Predictive lap timing, when evaluated within the context of developing, practicing and implementing a prime versus option approach in line/gear/shift point/control input technique, can tell you RIGHT AWAY whether something is better or not. Do more better...