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Porsche Human Factors Engineering: C-/D+

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Old 09-04-2023, 03:53 AM
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Pretorien
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Default Porsche Human Factors Engineering: C-/D+

Not a complaint about Porsche engineering in general - their skills in chassis and drivetrain development are deservedly legendary
-no, it's simple things that would be easy to get right that are stubbornly wrong - perhaps because they are seen as unimportant.

Examples: Outward visibility - like many SUVs, especially the "coupe'" styled ones, outside visibility is marginal but a few, mostly cheap and easy changes would offer significant improvement e,g. folding rear headrests instead of the difficult to remove and inconvenient to store pull-outs, Rear view mirror - why the crescent bottomed "semi oval" that cuts off the lower corners of the already small rear hatch window - the traditional rectangle would serve better. Looking forward - age has robbed me of about 4' - I'm a scant 5'8" now and, with the driver's eat at it's highest position, all I see looking forward and down is the lower edge of the windscreen - not even a hint of the hood or nose of the car so I am wholly dependent on the front sensors for parking.How much could it cost to add 2-3" to the seat height adjustment? (mine are the 14-way seats, don't know about the others)

My favorite example - and a trivial one to boot: Porsche conveniently includes a pair of clips on the inside of the glove box door for a pen, tire pressure gauge or whatever - but they are on the right side, a difficult stretch even for an unbelted driver of a LHD car (I have a set of clips and will be adding them to my car) Oh well, at least it is easy for those with RHD examples - NOT SO! in RHD drive cars, the clips are fitted to the LEFT SIDE of the door!

Do the design engineers drive the cars anywhere other than test track?
Old 09-05-2023, 01:46 PM
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jobunaga
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I apologize on behalf of Porsche, AG for failing to take your specific body dimensions into account when designing their mass market SUV.

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Old 09-05-2023, 03:03 PM
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Pretorien
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And I need to respond with an apology - to you. My (deliberate) ignorance of pop culture renders the animation meaningless to me. Is it promoting a hair growth product?
Old 09-05-2023, 03:46 PM
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boyce89976
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As you say, those are all pretty trivial annoyances in an otherwise near-perfect car. I do agree that outward/rearward viability is a “C) at best. But I wouldn’t change the interior review mirror to a clunky rectangle. I think that is one area where the stylists deservedly won vs the engineers. I would like a broader view from the outside mirrors though. Just widening them an inch would be a big improvement. With most cars it’s relatively easy to get an uninterrupted rear view that virtually eliminates blind spots with proper placement of the exterior mirrors, but I’ve struggled a little bit with my Macan.
Old 09-09-2023, 11:03 AM
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We have a triple black, 2018 Macan turbo that is a joy to drive. It's engine and exhaust make all the right sounds. It looks great sitting still and it has many of the classic Porsche curves. Yes, they compromised function for form. I'll take it the way it is as it is a beautiful and highly capable vehicle. None of my Porsches have great visibility. I have picked up various reference points on the cars and move about on the seat to help me park and maneuver in tight places. These annoyances go away as soon as I start driving!
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Old 09-09-2023, 02:37 PM
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hilander444
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There are numerous reasons and tradeoffs behind every design decision. You could compile a list of this nature for any consumer product (why are the iPhone volume buttons on the left rather than the right?).
To solve front and rear visibility, the Macan can be fitted with an optional surround view which to my mind is a must-have.


Old 09-09-2023, 06:20 PM
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EVERY SINGLE vehicle I’ve owned has “issues” that are impossible to ID during a test drive and only become apparent once long term ownership sets in.

IMO the Macan is the best engineered and constructed vehicle I’ve ever owned.
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Old 09-09-2023, 06:36 PM
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Macan is the best SUV I've ever driven or owned. If you're grading it as a C-/D+, then everything else is an F.
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Old 09-09-2023, 10:29 PM
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First SUV I have ever owned, and it checks all the boxes. Especially for a road trip.
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Old 09-10-2023, 12:20 PM
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steveo17
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Originally Posted by boyce89976
I would like a broader view from the outside mirrors though. Just widening them an inch would be a big improvement. With most cars it’s relatively easy to get an uninterrupted rear view that virtually eliminates blind spots with proper placement of the exterior mirrors, but I’ve struggled a little bit with my Macan.
You should look into getting a set of OEM euro side view mirrors for your Macan. The European ones are "aspherical" meaning they are curved outwards slightly at the edges. When installed and setup "correctly" blind spots are completely eliminated. This one of my first mods on my car (and every car since my GTI nearly 15 years ago). It is a big BIG upgrade and I don't understand why the NHTSA deems them "illegal" here in the US. You can get them from Suncoast but you should also be able to find them pretty easily on eBay for much cheaper too. As far as I know all Macan mirrors (2015-2024) are identical. Just note which whether your car has auto-dimming side mirrors or not

https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/SKU95BASP.html
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Old 09-16-2023, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Pretorien
Not a complaint about Porsche engineering in general - their skills in chassis and drivetrain development are deservedly legendary
-no, it's simple things that would be easy to get right that are stubbornly wrong - perhaps because they are seen as unimportant.

Examples: Outward visibility - like many SUVs, especially the "coupe'" styled ones, outside visibility is marginal but a few, mostly cheap and easy changes would offer significant improvement e,g. folding rear headrests instead of the difficult to remove and inconvenient to store pull-outs, Rear view mirror - why the crescent bottomed "semi oval" that cuts off the lower corners of the already small rear hatch window - the traditional rectangle would serve better. Looking forward - age has robbed me of about 4' - I'm a scant 5'8" now and, with the driver's eat at it's highest position, all I see looking forward and down is the lower edge of the windscreen - not even a hint of the hood or nose of the car so I am wholly dependent on the front sensors for parking.How much could it cost to add 2-3" to the seat height adjustment? (mine are the 14-way seats, don't know about the others)

My favorite example - and a trivial one to boot: Porsche conveniently includes a pair of clips on the inside of the glove box door for a pen, tire pressure gauge or whatever - but they are on the right side, a difficult stretch even for an unbelted driver of a LHD car (I have a set of clips and will be adding them to my car) Oh well, at least it is easy for those with RHD examples - NOT SO! in RHD drive cars, the clips are fitted to the LEFT SIDE of the door!

Do the design engineers drive the cars anywhere other than test track?
Really a C-/D+?? I can understand your issues with the seat height and mirror, but did you test drive the car before you bought it? I would think those things would get flagged during a test drive and a reason not to even buy the car in the first place. Re the seats, I have the 18 way adjustable and the seat height is adjustable to the point my head hits the roof, and I'm 5'10. Visibility is good IMHO, when compared to my 2017 911 Carrera S, and even better compared to a BMW X3 M40i. The suround view camera system in the Macan goes a long way to eliminate blind spots while parking or reversing. Sure, it does not compare to the glass house view of a 70's BMW 2002 but you have to go way back to get a car with visibility like that.
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Old 09-17-2023, 08:27 AM
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Default Aspherical mirrors? - been there, done that



In those distant days, any outside RVM was an option!
Old 09-17-2023, 10:05 AM
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dak911
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My dislike is the change to the "switchless" controls on the center console
I used to be able to find the one I wanted by feel, now you have to actually look down to find it and see if it "light up"
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Old 09-17-2023, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dak911
My dislike is the change to the "switchless" controls on the center console
I used to be able to find the one I wanted by feel, now you have to actually look down to find it and see if it "light up"
Completely agree - I have major loss of feeling in my hands - carpal tunnel syndrome - touch screens are a real problem for me. I suspect that this change was predicated on "engineering" input from the accounting department - a single straight from the supplier part vs ?? buttons, lights, frames etc.
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Old 09-17-2023, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Pretorien
Completely agree - I have major loss of feeling in my hands - carpal tunnel syndrome - touch screens are a real problem for me. I suspect that this change was predicated on "engineering" input from the accounting department - a single straight from the supplier part vs ?? buttons, lights, frames etc.
Unfortunately, touch screens are verywhere. You can't check out at a walmart, Homedepot, or Food for Less without running into them. So Porsche's choice to use them does not strike me as groundbreaking at all, more follow along. They should go back to tactile switches that you don't have to look down to operate (as in the 991.2 and earlier 911s), that would be groundbreaking. And for a car with $6000 brake rotors, how can the cost of a few dollars in switches enter into it?


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