K-A

LOL. Ain't that the truth. The GLA in one fell swoop has devalued an already suffering design image coming from MB (not to mention aiding massive brand dilution). I'm sure it's fun, but you can't outrun ugly.

adamsclubs

Yes the CLA was a departure from the traditional MB image, it has been a sales success so far, and has helped MB to pass BMW in sales so far in the US.

The GLA goes even further. MB is betting that it will sell even more than CLA in the US. Only time will tell.

I don't blame them trying to "dilute their own image" though. Their traditional buyers have been getting older for some time. They need new blood.

It is not as if they are the only brand doing it, they all do.

K-A

The CLA is basically garbage with an M-B badge IMO, it looks or drives no better than a basic economy car (interior is very cheap to me, ride got harsh, handling nothing to write home about, FWD proportions and drivetrain, etc.). Also, M-B slashing prices so much that you can lease E Classes for what a loaded Camry would cost is also a factor in that. I don't think raising sales like that is anything for them to brag about. M-B has built up enough cachet due to their previous brand image to be able to sell a car that starts at $29K like hotcakes, no matter how bad or good it is. It's basically milking and cashing in on the badge by doing something that is essentially antithesis to what got it to where it is in the first place. M-B is basically trying to become the German Toyota, constantly going downmarket when they used to be a brand identified by almost exclusively high end products. Mercedes also has a much bigger product lineup than BMW or Audi, so it's no feat that they've just now sold more cars in the U.S than BMW, and even worse that they can't outsell BMW nor Audi worldwide, even with a more vast lineup.

What I love about Porsche, aside from expanding in a more elegant, concise, and focused fashion, is that when they enter a new segment, they make sure they release something with no compromises, that introduces an innovative driving experience. I.e, they truly release a "Porsche". The Macan more-so than the Cayenne and Panamera even, as it brings something that the overall SUV segment has never had.

M-B, with their cheaper cars, really just release a compromised product. BMW's cheaper cars actually uphold the brands virtues more-so than the expensive cars. M-B is a brand who was known for its premium feel, so they're struggling to provide something of value at the lower price points, that isn't bought simply because it's a "cheap Benz". Not sure if you've driven a CLA, but it's shockingly unimpressive and really doesn't make a good showing of whatever M-B's "brand values" are when expanding to such price points. GLA I'm sure is the same or if its styling is an indicator, even worse.

adamsclubs

I don't think the 3 series upholds BMW value anymore when you see them at every street corner and you can lease one cheaper than a loaded Camry, yet you hold a different standard to MB.

The GLA45 beats Macan S in performance, yet you believe the Macan is the ultimate no compromise from Porsche, and the GLA45 is garbage?

You are trying too hard to make Porsche fans look bad.

I certainly believe each brand has different goal and image to pursue. MB is a mainstream premium brand, they must fight for volume.

Porsche less so, but does not lack the desire to increase its sales. Even Maserati and Jaguar alike are in hot pursuit.

They must be all making garbage new models, if your definition of garbage is anything different from their traditional offering.

K-A

No, "garbage" is garbage. The CLA is an extremely unimpressive car considering what I'd expect. If it had another brands emblem on the hood, it'd start at $19k. The GLA based on looks alone is in a different league than the Macan. Interior on another universe, drive refinement and interior isolation also sorely lacking. You're talking about one aspect (pure performance) of the top spec AMG version. AMG does a great job these days, but IMO it's lipstick on a pig, a good dancing pig, but a pig

Funny thing is, E350's are leasing pretty similar to 328i's, which tells you how desperate in measures MB has to go, to please shareholders with a "sales title".

I'm technically not a Porsche owner yet. I'm coming from 4 straight MB's and a current BMW.

K-A

Increasing sales are fine, but there's a graceful way to do it and maintain brands values and dignity. MB have lost the plot in that respect, IMO, and BMW are getting pretty messy themselves with some of their confusing, and awkward new models.

adamsclubs

I generally agree both MB and BMW compromised a lot with their traditional models.

What is yet to know is how well their new models will do for them.

You have to compare the CLA45 and GLA45 AMGs if you are looking at Porsche. The fact is GLA45 beats Macan S in performance.

Any Porsche driver who ignore performance is not a true Porsche fan. IMHO, refinement and isolation today often come at the expense of compromised performance.

The word "isolation" should not be in a Porsche driver's vocabulary.

Since you are not a Porsche driver yet, I won't blame you

I understand though Porsche must also branch out to non-traditional Porsche drivers, who emphasize comfort more than connection to the road.

For the same reason, I understand why MB is also branching out to those who would never had considered the three pointed star.

I am happy to see the new Porsche emphasis on comfort and amenities draws you in, just want to point out, they are not traditional Porsche values.

In other words, you benefit from Porsche moving away from their traditional core values. It would not be fair to bash MB for doing the same, especially as a result, actually beats Porsche in its own game for a change.

Rolltide86

Agree with the "lipstick on a pig" assessment.

K-A

That's not exactly what I meant. The Macan provides the *fundamental* factors of a premium car in a leading way. Refinement, fit/finish, perfect segment styling, etc. The GLA is like a Nissan with an MB badge, IMO. The reason I'm considering the Macan is because of how sporty and innovative it is for its segment, because I need a car like it for my tall frame. The GLA45 might be slightly better in performance, but it's singular, it'll come with a cheap interior, disastrous IMO classless styling, moderate at best fit/finish, and still be an inherent $30ksomething car (I'm sure you'll be able to get them for $20's soon enough with MB discounting) that feels like it, but is fun to drive. To me, I don't care how it performs, it's not inherently worthy of even a base Macan price tag, but everyone will have different priorities.

With a car, I try and have my cake and eat it too, which IMO Porsche nailed with the Macan. It feels like a true sports car to me compared to my current 5 Series and 4 previous MB's, but it also feels more refined than all of them, which makes it such a winner to me.

But yes, sportiness is what I'm after, Porsche DNA within my criteria, and I agree about that being Porsche's value. I'm not getting it because I want a soft car with a Porsche badge, the car is not that, it's ultimately more dynamic. However, they don't compromise when they introduce a new model within it's respective genre, while MB's new downmarket models are really drastic compromises all over.

adamsclubs

Macan S (haven't driven a Macan Turbo) even though better than Cayenne, is still a big compromise of Porsche DNA, only those who never driven a Porsche sports car would think otherwise.

Does it drive better than an M5, yes, but not by much. But it is smaller and should drive better. It did not drive that differently than an X3 35i for example.

As far as those big MB SUVs, of course they were not for driving pleasure. But here is my point. MB is trying to make new models that are sportier and more fun to drive.

For someone like you, who proclaim sporty driving is what you going after, then turn around bash the effort by MB to make more sporty drivers, just seemed a contradiction to me.

Noticed I never discuss the looks much, even though I had quite a few issues with the Macan. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There is nothing wrong with either one, as long as you are aware they are after different age groups.

In fact I am not the age group the GLA45 targets, and Macan fits better for our family too. But I applaud MB for willing to think outside of the box.

Too many brands today want to be safe. They design their models all look the same.

But I understand why, just read the opinions here and there.

jinzen

Have to say, going to really disagree here.

I come from a Range Rover Evoque and while I like the Macan a lot in terms of its capabilities, styling is definitely way behind. The Evoque is miles better looking.

As for Mercedes, the GLA is a very good looking wagon type of vehicle. It's very small and has little off-road ability, while the Macan is more of a truck.

The Macan is what, the cheapest car you can buy from Porsche? It's doing what every other brand is doing - which is make an entry level car that tries to appeal to more people.

My favorite Porsche is actually the Panamera, I'm waiting for the next generation before I pull the trigger. While I've been in 911s and they are really awesome cars, they are hard to justify is a year round daily driver, I'm not there yet to park a 911 as a second car.

K-A

Did you drive a Macan with AS/PASM? Huge difference from standard suspension. That setup really.blows away the X3 along with any other SUV.

MB are actually making their cars LESS sporty. The new C was shockingly bland to drive, many agree that it's less sporty than previous. The E drives like a boat with feather light steering, etc.

AMG are making sportier cars and transforming MB's typically sloppy chassis dynamics. Big difference. But with AMG's, you lose a lot of serenity if that matters. Kind of a game of extremes.

I don't think bad designs constitute "thinking outside of the box", but to each their own. To me, MB designs ate very contrived these days and also going through an identity crisis as where they used to be the ones copied, these days they seem to do the copying.

K-A

I'm not big on the Evoque styling. The Macan looks a lot more mature and refined to me, Evoque too "kiddish". If you think the GLA is actually nice then that obviously explains how we judge design much differently.

I think the Macan with AS drives more like a "Porsche" than the Cayenne or Panamera, gives me more of that 911 vibe. Point being, Porsche's cheapest model upholds the brands virtues more than the other 4 doors, and many agree. Which is why while the Macan is cheaper, it isn't a sacrifice, actually superior to the Cayenne to many. That's why it's such a game changer. The GLA is a complete marketing lead model, no virtues over other MB's other than being among the cheapest models.

1MORLAP

GLA looks like X1 - weird station wagon. Considering they are at least as much as Macan S, with the same power but out of a 2.0 l 4 banger I can only predict that they will be a failure.

adamsclubs

I won't write it off yet, seeing how successful the CLA has been.

There is however some thing to overcome in the US trying to sell a hothatch like car.