993Mpls

Hi all,

A lightly optioned Macan S has made it into the serious consideration set for our new family daily-driver. I'm planning on keeping whatever we buy for 10+ years. There's some talk in the Cayenne forum (and occasionally the Panamera forum, and very occasionally the 997 forum) of cylinder scoring due metals expanding at different rates when the engine is first turned on in very cold temperatures (10F or below.) I live in Minnesota, and it gets cold here during the winter, and this new car will need to be reliable, for 5 or more years after the warrrenty has expired.

From what I've read, the problem is confined to the 4.5L V8, and the cylinder lining in some of those engines.

I've not heard of this problem in Macan yet, but I'm not sure what other vehicles this engine is used in.

Has anyone else had these concerns? (Hopefully not.) Does anyone have reasons to think that this might be a concern? Comments, one way or another?

Thanks!

Rubik

Too new. Check back in 5 years.

993Mpls

If somebody could drive 40k miles above the Arctic circle this week and then have their engine disassembled and examined next Monday, I'd really appreciate it

SteveFromMN

I had a 996 for 13 years. Bought it new. Traded it on a new 997 in 2012. Just took delivery of a New Cayenne S.
I'm not the least bit worried. I intend to keep both cars for 8 to 10 years or longer. My advice warm them up before driving them hard. Change oil at least once a year.
Porsche has put a lot more money in testing since they had engine problems. I drive both cars in winter here in Minnesota. Although since I got the Cayenne I prefer it in the winter.

david_alford

IIRC the official line from Porsche on Cayenne 4.5L scored cylinders was either wrong oil viscosity (something other than Mobil1 0w40 was used) or going over 10k miles in between oil changes. Their original recommendation on 955 oil changes was every 20k miles.

I imagine the Macan holds ~9+ quarts similar to the other models...Cayenne takes ~15 miles of driving before oil reaches optimum operating temp. On cold days I crank it and sit for 2 minutes before taking off.

Slow Guy

If "wrong oil used" were the official response Porsche would need to change their "Porsche Approved Oil List" to reflect that fact.

I know the official recommendation for the 993 (and I think it's Porsche's recommendation for all their cars) is not to let it sit there to "warm up" but to drive it, but keep the RPMs down until the oil has reached operating temp.

SteveFromMN

My new Cayenne reaches full oil temp in about 4-5 miles. You should not idle your car in cold weather to warm it up. The proper procedure is to drive away normally.
A lot of people think they know more than the engineers and use some other oil or weight that is not recommended.

Dan87951

If long term durability/reliability are a top priority, I would probably pass on the Macan. Porsche's track record on catastrophic engine problems lately has been very disappointing. Flat6 on the Cayenne forum, who is well respected says the piston to cylinder wall clearance is too tight, causing scoring in cold temperatures. It doesn't matter if you change the oil every day, if you own a Cayenne S and live in a cold climate your probability of getting scored cylinders is extremely high! The turbo engines are built a little looser so their not as prone to this. Just my $.02.

cairo94507

I think some people try to buy budget oil instead of using what Porsche recommends. Our C4S get about 8K miles a year on it and I change the oil and filter yearly with Mobil 1 as per Porsche recommendations. I have never had a problem with any of the P-cars we have owned, 10 and counting. Of course i don't start the engine up cold and rev it to 7K either....

993Mpls

I'm not sure the temperatures in California get cold enough to (potentially) cause engine scoring. This Minnesota winter has been pretty mild, only a handful of days with below 0F temperatures, unlike last winter which had something like 25 consecutive days below 0.

The Flat6 posts are exactly what prompted me to ask the question. I haven't looked in that forum lately, but it seemed that the Cayenne engine scoring was limited to some specific years (pre-2008? I don't recall, I don't think that was specifically ever sussed out.)

On the other hand, some of this might also be internet forum self-selection. I was reading some Audiworld forums and there are some threads there about A4 engine scoring issues in (now older) A4s. And a friend's Subaru's transmission failed after 5k miles. If *all* cold-weather Cayennes had scoring, that would be another matter.

In any case, the rational solution to this problem is to move to someplace warmer and drive a Porsche everyday!

1MORLAP

Yes, move. Lease the car for 48 months. By then we will have more data on reliability, and some early signs. If all looks good - keep the car, if not, get something different.

This is a brand new engine that from what I have read is derived from the V8. We are yet to see how well it ages.

Tomasz

Dan87951

If you live in California you will probably be fine. Lately, since Porsche has had such a poor history with engine reliability why chance it and give them more of our money? If we as consumers continue to put up with this crap they will just continue to build us throw away cars.

Rubik

Overall, porsche engines are more prone to cylinder scoring because the owners think just because it has a porsche badge on it has to be driven aggressively all the time. So they go petal to metal 5 seconds after they started her up from a long night's rest. Cylinder scoring you ask! Of course says I!

Does it matter where you live? Yes, because there is an inverse proportional relationship between temperature and oil viscosity within a particular range. Outside of that range it pretty much plateaus.

So in my case, I'm not the least worried because I know how I treat my cars. My wife drives less aggressive than me so we're going to be ok.

Buckfever

Thank you for the reference, I went back and read the postings by Flat6 innovations. Apparently it was piston dependent as some engines were built with particular pistons that did not display the cold expansion problem. Overall though he was positive on the Cayenne engine.

I reached out to him to comment on the current Macan and Cayenne offerings. I'll report back if he responds.

993Mpls

Buckfever: Good idea, thanks for contacting Flat6.

1MORLAP: Also a good idea re: leasing. That hadn't occurred to me. I'll put it on the list.