thusly

I just purchased a 2018 Turbo S E-hybrid Sport Turismo and was wondering what the group's experience was as to the electric charging level. When I acquired the vehicle, fully charged, I had 24-25 miles of range. (I used the Porsche supplied 110v charging station). After several uses, I switched over to using my wife's Tesla charging station (with adapter), and seems as though I can only get 21 miles of charge. I switched back to the 110v Porsche charger and can now only get 21 miles. Are other E-hybrid owners experiencing the same or approximate range? FWIW garage conditions are 70 degrees, similar to ambient outside temperatures....

Thanks in advance for any thoughts..

SS22

Generally get less miles in the colder weather than in the warmer weather. Maybe you’re experiencing the seasonal effect

16PanaHybrid

Driving style will also affect the trending electric range that is displayed quite a bit. If you want max electric range, accelerate gently like there is an egg under gas pedal.

orca15

I assume you are talking about the displayed estimated range after charging...if this helps my '22 4EH has gone from 35 to 30 just due to the drop in temperature - in the garage!. Doubt very seriously that the brand of charging EVSE could in any way affect the estimated max range. The car has final say on how much juice it drinks.

droptable

In my recently acquired 2019 4e I have never used the provided porsche charger since I didn't have the nema plug and instead have a hard wired tesla charger from my previous vehicle. I too have noticed variation based on the fluctuating temperatures this time of year.

Ericson38

Just looked at this site for the battery for this car-
2022 Porsche High - voltage battery. Panamera - 971915091GY | Porsche Atlanta Perimeter, Atlanta GA (porscheatlantaperimeterparts.com)

Cost seems very high to be able to go as far as 1.5 gallons of gasoline would require. I wonder what the battery weighs ? Does UPS ship them ?

Since (circa 2022) the hybrid model weighs 5097 lbs (4E Hybrid) versus 4178 lbs (Panamera 4), which is 900 lbs more, I estimate the battery at 600 lbs.

Lets say it can be deep recycled 1000 times. So each cycle cost $20 (20,000 battery price). Then add the per cycle electricity cost of maybe $5.00. So going 30 miles for $25.00 in perfect silence. With a Panamera ICE, this would cost maybe $8.00.

Was reading through this post-

Panamera S e-Hybrid - Main Battery - Pelican Parts Forums

.

SS22

Without getting in the weeds of the math there, I’d like to point out that you ignore the value of increased performance (power and instant torque) in your evaluation of the cost/value of the e-hybrid.

Ericson38

For sure the instant torque is a thing. We have a 2wd 2019 Panamera. Extra torque is great for sure.

Tested: 2018 Porsche Panamera V-6 RWD (caranddriver.com)

Love the 2wd car but being an electrical engineer, always study the E machines and their cost baselines and what benefits come at the extra cost.

SS22

But the true cost to owners is not an extra $20k because no one is paying $20k for an after market battery. The true cost would be the delta between the ICE model and the E-Hybrid model of the same variant (example, 4S vs 4S E-Hybrid). Then you also have to account for things like the old federal tax credit (Panameras no longer qualify), any state incentives, cheaper insurance (mine for example gives a hybrid discount), etc.

Ericson38

For aftermarket, what did you find ?
High-voltage battery 971915091GY (vertexauto.com)
Genuine Porsche - 971915091GY - HIGH-VOLTAGE BATTERY (ecstuning.com)
High Voltage Battery OEM 971915091GY Porsche Panamera Turbo S Hybrid G2 2017+ | eBay

thusly

Thanks - you are correct: inquiring about the displayed estimated range after charging.....

orca15

I think the math is pretty fair, although my cost per charge is not $5 but $2.40 (16kw@$0.15). And I would compare the initial purchase of a 4E with 4S, as the specs are similar - and with the rebate, the 4E saved me about the $7500 over the 4S. Which of course is no more.

I am absolutely fingers crossed that, 8 years from now, I've either gotten a new battery via warranty or the price has dropped to something more reasonable, e.g. under $10K. Then the math looks like this:

@8 years, 80K driven, 40K of which are electric. 30 e-miles costs me $2.40 in kW instead of $5 in gas, so I have saved 40K/(30/($5-$2.40))=$3500 plus the $7500, which hopefully pays for the new battery by then.

But to be fair to @Ericson38 , the math only barely breaks even in this best case, so if you buy a hybrid to "save money" you might want to rethink.

Ericson38

I'm thinking about a Hybrid for the next one (2009 Cayenne has 170K miles now). Our electricity price is in the 39 cent per kWh range depending on plan and time of day, so that's where I got the $5.00 per charge. The price of the battery looks pretty stiff, and since I haven't been tracking them, I don't know if the $ per kW hour capacity and longevity is going up or coming down. There will be a strain in material resources and more and more batteries are made (demand side) unless there is a large scale increase in specific rare metals they use (mining expansion), thinking about the supply side.

SS22

Yea, my electric company’s EV rate plan has us paying $0.20 for off-peak usage (any time other than 4-9 pm).

Agree that one shouldn’t buy the hybrid “to save money.” But there are still a few missing pieces. One as I already said is cheaper insurance (most companies offer an EV/Hybrid discount). Another is lower cost of maintenance, the biggest part of which is probably the brakes, which are used up a lot less because of regen braking. Another cost saving aside from the pure EV mileage saving on gas (and for me, it’s been 66% driving in e-power versus 34% ICE) is the improved efficiency even when driving in ICE. I also think realistically, no one is (or should be) paying for a brand new battery because the original warranty is 8 (or in some cases 10?) years and there are after market warranties that cover the warranty; I’d argue that no one should drive a Panamera outside of warranty beyond 8 years anyways and the warranty is much cheaper than a full battery replacement. So while no one should buy a hybrid because it’ll save them money, in the end, it actually will save them several thousand dollars. The improved performance/power alone though has been worth it for me and I would’ve gotten the e-hybrid for that reason alone even if I had to pay a little more. To be saving money and also getting better performance is a win-win. Last but not least is if you care about the environment and think you’re doing something to help and that intrinsic value is hard to put a price on (not one of the motivating factors for me but I know some out there do care).

Ericson38

I was reading about the green discount here. Author points out that discount related to less miles drive per year (full electric maybe).

How does buying a hybrid car affect your insurance rate? | HowStuffWorks

and here-'Hybrid drivers get into more accidents than non-hybrid drivers' ?

If I Buy a Hybrid – Do I Get a Discount on My Auto Insurance? | Freeway Knowledge Center (freewayinsurance.com)