Porsche Panamera e-hybrid
02-11-2014, 11:03 PM
#2
Drove one for the first time about 3 weeks ago. I liked it.
03-02-2014, 03:10 AM
#4
I drove one a few months ago. I was really interested to see how it would compare to my '13 P-GTS.
I was pleasantly surprised. The transition from battery to gas-powered was pretty seamless. It was surprising to be able to get up to 84 mph before the gas engine kicked in.
The added weight of the car was noticeable, however. It accelerates pretty well but you can sure feel the weight when cornering. Others have remarked about a different braking feel, but to be honest I can't say that I really noticed anything in that regard.
My biggest reaction was that the darned thing was unsafe to drive! I was so caught up with watching all the gauges and diagrams about the powertrain that I wasn't watching the road!! I think that effect would wear off quickly, but it is sure is an issue when you first drive it. At least, it was for me. But then again it was the first hybrid I've ever driven, so it was all terra incognita for me.
DMoore
'13 Panamera GTS
'13 C2S
I was pleasantly surprised. The transition from battery to gas-powered was pretty seamless. It was surprising to be able to get up to 84 mph before the gas engine kicked in.
The added weight of the car was noticeable, however. It accelerates pretty well but you can sure feel the weight when cornering. Others have remarked about a different braking feel, but to be honest I can't say that I really noticed anything in that regard.
My biggest reaction was that the darned thing was unsafe to drive! I was so caught up with watching all the gauges and diagrams about the powertrain that I wasn't watching the road!! I think that effect would wear off quickly, but it is sure is an issue when you first drive it. At least, it was for me. But then again it was the first hybrid I've ever driven, so it was all terra incognita for me.
DMoore
'13 Panamera GTS
'13 C2S
03-06-2014, 05:17 PM
#6
Sure like to see a post from someone who has had one a couple of months.
05-15-2014, 03:17 PM
#7
Drifting
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Wondering the same thing.
Porsche are claiming 50MPGe. I would love to spend a few months with this car as I have driven a Prius 99% of the time the past two years and see the difference. While Toyota's Prius Plug-In Model estimates 95MPGe and 50MPG.
With this one if you live close to work and all your surroundings you don't have to turn on the Gas motor too much at all and you could save A LOT of money.
Further I would like to know what this new Panamera get's in "Mixed Mode" Driving because once you're on the Highway and you run out of Electrical Juice the car's power systems behave just like a Prius would. But on the Porsche's website it just states 50/MPGe and that is it. I imagine it's up in the mid 30's in the MPG in mixed mode!
With some simple math that I won't reveal, and truthfully guessed on some numbers and in comparison with a regular Panamera S, the Plug-In can just about $2200 a year in fuel cost at $4 a gallon for Petrol! But with a Base Price you're not buying the Plug-In to save the planet or save A lot of money on fuel cost - it's just pure prestige on this one.
Porsche are claiming 50MPGe. I would love to spend a few months with this car as I have driven a Prius 99% of the time the past two years and see the difference. While Toyota's Prius Plug-In Model estimates 95MPGe and 50MPG.
With this one if you live close to work and all your surroundings you don't have to turn on the Gas motor too much at all and you could save A LOT of money.
Further I would like to know what this new Panamera get's in "Mixed Mode" Driving because once you're on the Highway and you run out of Electrical Juice the car's power systems behave just like a Prius would. But on the Porsche's website it just states 50/MPGe and that is it. I imagine it's up in the mid 30's in the MPG in mixed mode!
With some simple math that I won't reveal, and truthfully guessed on some numbers and in comparison with a regular Panamera S, the Plug-In can just about $2200 a year in fuel cost at $4 a gallon for Petrol! But with a Base Price you're not buying the Plug-In to save the planet or save A lot of money on fuel cost - it's just pure prestige on this one.
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06-01-2014, 12:01 PM
#8
I am seriously considering this vs a Tesla. Would love to go the gas station every 6 weeks (or never). Not so interested in saving the planet as in eliminating the inconvenience of frequent fill ups of my gas guzzling cars with 20 gallon tanks.
06-01-2014, 04:40 PM
#9
Instructor
We're doing the same dance here, too.
The Boss just took a job where she can take advantage of the HOV lane with the "right" car. Of the eligible vehicles, it's the PSeH or the Tesla S P85. They're priced right on top of each other.
I've driven the PSeH a couple times now. It's not a bad car. Brake pedal better than any other hybrid I've driven. Haven't managed to jump in one that has a full charge yet, though.
She keeps complaining about the lack of acceleration in these cars. Which is funny... she's been driving my E63S a lot lately.. so the baseline is just a tiny bit skewed.
I think the specs are impressive in their own way on both cars.
The one thing that really turns me off on the Tesla, is the whole "we're gonna change the world" rubbish. And I'm not sure I want to send $100K to E Musk.
I'm going to start my email and phone campaign tomorrow. Found a few suitable units on the East Coast. A couple of stores are sitting on 7,8,9 of these things. They gotta be ripe for a sweet deal.
Last edited by ace10; 06-02-2014 at 08:12 AM.
06-02-2014, 12:36 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
I've got one on order. It's supposed to show up August 15th, but it's probable that the real ETA is more like end of July.
I continue to look at prices of the new ones. I see a few that are marked down $12k-$15k, but by no means all. It really depends I think on whether the dealership understands the car well enough to sell it. The dealership where I did my test drive had never shown it before, and didn't have it charged, which makes a big difference in performance. With an empty battery it's an overly heavy base Panamera.
The Tesla and the PSeH are the only really fast plug-ins available right now. The rest are econoboxes of one flavor or another, including the BMW i3. The BMW i8 is coming out, but is $36k more expensive and not available yet.
I considered a Tesla but decided against. Our other car is going to be a Cayman, so the Panamera is the road trip car. The charging network is still an issue with the Tesla, even with the Superchargers up. When I read owner's blogs, they're still full of stories of parking the car a mile or two away from the hotel so it can charge overnight.
I'm also a bit leery of the Tesla reliability right now. Edmund's has had to replace the drive unit on their car twice in 20,000 miles. Once I might have shrugged off. The want you to pay $600 / year for maintenance.
On a personal preferences front, I wanted something that looked like a sports car, and the Panamera is a lot closer to that than the Tesla. Even if people do rag on the looks.
I continue to look at prices of the new ones. I see a few that are marked down $12k-$15k, but by no means all. It really depends I think on whether the dealership understands the car well enough to sell it. The dealership where I did my test drive had never shown it before, and didn't have it charged, which makes a big difference in performance. With an empty battery it's an overly heavy base Panamera.
The Tesla and the PSeH are the only really fast plug-ins available right now. The rest are econoboxes of one flavor or another, including the BMW i3. The BMW i8 is coming out, but is $36k more expensive and not available yet.
I considered a Tesla but decided against. Our other car is going to be a Cayman, so the Panamera is the road trip car. The charging network is still an issue with the Tesla, even with the Superchargers up. When I read owner's blogs, they're still full of stories of parking the car a mile or two away from the hotel so it can charge overnight.
I'm also a bit leery of the Tesla reliability right now. Edmund's has had to replace the drive unit on their car twice in 20,000 miles. Once I might have shrugged off. The want you to pay $600 / year for maintenance.
On a personal preferences front, I wanted something that looked like a sports car, and the Panamera is a lot closer to that than the Tesla. Even if people do rag on the looks.
06-02-2014, 08:25 AM
#11
Instructor
It's clear that the dealers don't know how to sell them. Painfully obvious, really. The cars should be full-charged at all times. What's the point in demo'ing a non-hybrid hybrid? One sales guy was really weak on the specs. Thought it had a PDK, etc. A couple of other sales people were shy to admit they've never delivered one. I wonder how many are titled and actually on the road???
Last week I went through the effort to get the PSeH placed on the Virginia "Special Clean Fuel" list. It took a few calls and emails to the DMV and DEQ. That's something the dealers or PCNA should be doing! I could car less about a few mpg, I just want the Boss to be able to save a few minutes on her daily commute.
If I can find a dealer who wants to unload a unit for cheap, then I'll grab one now. Else, it's a waiting game.
Oh, and it was so odd to see that one minute TV advert for the PSeH. I think it was during the Rolex (or whatever its called this year) race broadcast this weekend. Makes me wonder if Porsche if going to put some $$ behind the model in order to clear out some inventory....
Last week I went through the effort to get the PSeH placed on the Virginia "Special Clean Fuel" list. It took a few calls and emails to the DMV and DEQ. That's something the dealers or PCNA should be doing! I could car less about a few mpg, I just want the Boss to be able to save a few minutes on her daily commute.
If I can find a dealer who wants to unload a unit for cheap, then I'll grab one now. Else, it's a waiting game.
Oh, and it was so odd to see that one minute TV advert for the PSeH. I think it was during the Rolex (or whatever its called this year) race broadcast this weekend. Makes me wonder if Porsche if going to put some $$ behind the model in order to clear out some inventory....
06-02-2014, 06:04 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
I'm not sure you're going to get much better than $15k off list for a new one. Wait long enough and you might see some better used prices next year.
One issue with the used prices is that you get a $5k federal tax credit on a new one, so the new one is net $91,900, actually cheaper than the $92,900 low-mileage used car above it.
06-02-2014, 07:20 PM
#13
Instructor
The best deal I've seen on Autotrader is a a white car for $96,900 in New Jersey. Has most everything I wanted personally except color and Surround View.
I'm not sure you're going to get much better than $15k off list for a new one. Wait long enough and you might see some better used prices next year.
One issue with the used prices is that you get a $5k federal tax credit on a new one, so the new one is net $91,900, actually cheaper than the $92,900 low-mileage used car above it.
I'm not sure you're going to get much better than $15k off list for a new one. Wait long enough and you might see some better used prices next year.
One issue with the used prices is that you get a $5k federal tax credit on a new one, so the new one is net $91,900, actually cheaper than the $92,900 low-mileage used car above it.
I don't know what a "great" price is quite yet. Haven't gotten enough emails worked through to have a grasp on pricing.
I do know there are a lot of these units being offered for sale with a lot of miles on the clock. Like the one you linked. My closest dealer uses the PSeH as service loaners. Ugg. While this isn't a dream car, by any means, it doesn't mean I'm not sweating the deal.
I worry a lot about these units that have been driven by tons of people, and not had any sort of regular battery charge in them. What's that gonna do to the efficiency and longevity?
Definitely not looking for anything with more than a couple hundred miles on it. And yeah, for sure it's gotta be untitled and eligible for the $4750 tax swindle.
Lots of questions with a car like this.
06-02-2014, 11:22 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
It'd be nice to know what the real odometer on that car is, true. The ad says 346 miles, but as you pointed out, the description says they've "put a couple of thousand miles on it."
I'd worry more about a car that had been left on the lot the battery mostly discharged than a car that had been driven. Dealers don't seem to know you should keep the battery at about 50% for storage. A car that's been driven as at least seen the battery recharged periodically through braking and even possibly e-Charge mode. A car that's been sitting, like the car I test drove, has been at minimum charge for a long time. Not zero, since the car won't deliberately drain the battery, but low, and eventually it'll self discharge like any other rechargeable.
That said, lithium ion's a pretty resilient technology compared to earlier techs. Unless you drain it really deeply and keep it there, it's unlikely you'll damage it.
I'd worry more about a car that had been left on the lot the battery mostly discharged than a car that had been driven. Dealers don't seem to know you should keep the battery at about 50% for storage. A car that's been driven as at least seen the battery recharged periodically through braking and even possibly e-Charge mode. A car that's been sitting, like the car I test drove, has been at minimum charge for a long time. Not zero, since the car won't deliberately drain the battery, but low, and eventually it'll self discharge like any other rechargeable.
That said, lithium ion's a pretty resilient technology compared to earlier techs. Unless you drain it really deeply and keep it there, it's unlikely you'll damage it.
06-03-2014, 01:43 AM
#15
Presently I'm leaning more toward the Tesla. I was really impressed by the instant torque; Way more responsive than even the big MB 6.2l normally aspirated motor in my old C63. The instant torque hit makes the admittedly pretty fast car seem even faster than it really is in real world driving.
The very intuitive touch screen interface was terrific. It makes the German infotainment systems seem archaic and very clunky. My wife finds the sea of buttons in my Porsche and Audi aesthetically displeasing, but loved the Tesla screen. The interior materials weren't up to the Audi A/S8 or Mercedes S class standard but pretty close to Porsche (at least without 15k in interior upgrades options at Porsche pricing.). I would still have to keep an internal combustion car anyway for long trips, so I think I can get by without the essentially infinite range of a hybrid. Lastly just the novelty of the experience is pretty cool.
It's an odd world where the Porsche is the more practical choice and the American competition produces more excitement in me. Not a situation I'd ever imagined anyway.
The final kicker is that I live in the middle of nowhere Oklahoma. For $100, Tesla will send a service van to my door instead of me having to get the car to Tulsa or Dallas. After shipping Ferrari's to Dallas and trying to figure out when I can get a Porsche to Tulsa, this is almost enough to make the sale. I'll try to test drive the e-Hybrid before I put down my deposit on a Tesla, but I suspect that Tesla's going to be my next fun car.
The very intuitive touch screen interface was terrific. It makes the German infotainment systems seem archaic and very clunky. My wife finds the sea of buttons in my Porsche and Audi aesthetically displeasing, but loved the Tesla screen. The interior materials weren't up to the Audi A/S8 or Mercedes S class standard but pretty close to Porsche (at least without 15k in interior upgrades options at Porsche pricing.). I would still have to keep an internal combustion car anyway for long trips, so I think I can get by without the essentially infinite range of a hybrid. Lastly just the novelty of the experience is pretty cool.
It's an odd world where the Porsche is the more practical choice and the American competition produces more excitement in me. Not a situation I'd ever imagined anyway.
The final kicker is that I live in the middle of nowhere Oklahoma. For $100, Tesla will send a service van to my door instead of me having to get the car to Tulsa or Dallas. After shipping Ferrari's to Dallas and trying to figure out when I can get a Porsche to Tulsa, this is almost enough to make the sale. I'll try to test drive the e-Hybrid before I put down my deposit on a Tesla, but I suspect that Tesla's going to be my next fun car.