COILS TSB - Page 3

ventuje · 12-23-2007, 10:37 AM

Hey Nexus 6, thanks for posting that work order, but jeez, did your dealer really stick you with a Hertz rental as a loaner? OUCH! I usually get another Cayenne or Audi as a loaner.
I also had all coils replaced under warranty. Every once in a while you could feel a "bump" or two at red lights. I guess it was caught early as the plugs were OK according to my service manager. What is the Transmission ECU fix? Is it just a "flash" or new part? Did that smooth out your trans?
Jeff

Nexus 6 · 12-27-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ventuje

Hey Nexus 6, thanks for posting that work order, but jeez, did your dealer really stick you with a Hertz rental as a loaner? OUCH! I usually get another Cayenne or Audi as a loaner.
I also had all coils replaced under warranty. Every once in a while you could feel a "bump" or two at red lights. I guess it was caught early as the plugs were OK according to my service manager. What is the Transmission ECU fix? Is it just a "flash" or new part? Did that smooth out your trans?
Jeff

Jeff,

No prob on scanning and posting my work order

I just wanted to be able to contribute something to the forum. And since the "pencil coils" (along with the trans ECU "upgrade") being a big problem with Alpha/Beta models....I figured it might help some of you.....to at least print it out and take to your local Porsche dealership to MAKE SURE that they address the problem correctly ya know?

Yea they did put me in a Pontiac Grand Prix GTX. Actually besides it being a front wheel drive car (which is downright STUPID considering it has the LS2 V8 300+ HP engine in it), it was pretty fast. I think it had to deal with the fact that I DID NOT purchase my Cayenne from them (however, I originally TRIED to purchase one from them but the day that I went to their dealership....I was in my Infiniti G35 Coupe, and wearing Camo Cargo shorts and a t-shirt with flip flops....and the salespeople didn't even give me the time of day. They were more interested in watching a Chargers football game on tv rather then deal with my questions, and wanting a test drive. So I took my business elsewhere....a Lexus dealership and found my 04 with only 17k miles on it, very nicely equipped....nav, tow package, 19 inche wheels, and the everything wrapped in leather option for $39k. I bought it on the spot!

So yea....I ASSUME that is why I only get a Hertz rental everytime I take the Pepper in. Bah....no biggie. I just take the rental home, park it, and jump into my 350Z and scoot around town in that until they call me to come pick up the car

Yea the symptoms that you describe as far as the "bump" (sluggish...like it cannot find the right gear when accelerating...jerking and lagging) that was indeed the coils. But as with me...they replaced not only the coils, but due to the coils being bad....it caused big time misfires on the cylinders (the bump) and fouled the plugs. I think they were being pretty cheap in not replacing your plugs as far as I am concerned....but thats just me.

What did the "ECU Upgrade" fix? I have no idea. Like....I associated the "sluggishness/jerking while trying to find the right gear under acceleration" thing with the defective COILS due to the fact that I was probably only effeciently running on 6 cylinders. THE DEALER took it upon themselves to do the ECU flash upgrade themselves. My opinion.....I personally think that the gears "hit harder" with the way it was ORIGINALLY programmed (translation....quicker throttle response and better/harder shifts in tiptronic mode). I mean now.....its not a slouch by any definition of the word, but I would have preferred the original (or previous programming) specs. But oh well. As far as it being just a "flash" or a "new part"? I believe that it was ONLY a flash (but I could be wrong).

Good luck with your Pepper!

And if you ever need some advice, please feel free to hit me up as I have already made the MANY trips to the dealer so that they could work out the Beta bugs. And to be honest with you.....now that the bugs are worked out....the car is doing quite well. So don't let a lot of what you see posted here about the "horror stories" associated with the Alpha/Beta Cayennes scare you. As long as you get one with at least 6 months factory warranty left on it....that will give you time to make your trips to the dealer so that they can "make things right" and you should be good to go. And as far as all of my bugs go....they never once stranded me, so I always made it home and was able to drive it to the dealer for the fix.

Jason

Sam CS 05 · 12-27-2007, 02:43 PM

when I asked the service manager why plugs not replaced, he said they were fine and not every case of coils needs plug replacement. He assured me that what was one was the correct service. I have no solid evidence of not trusting him. I guess, I'll pay for the plugs during 60 k service.
Sam

alirob · 01-13-2008, 12:53 AM

I want to thank you guys for alerting me about the defective coils. With only 200 miles left on my warranty, I brought my 04 CS to the dealer and complained about rough acceleration at low rpms. They replaced all the coils, no charge to me. Since they were doing the coils, i had them replace the plugs, which normally would be replaced at 60K. This way I avoided the labor cost; only paying for the plugs.

rbaron · 01-13-2008, 01:07 AM

I am having a very intermittent rough idle....such as at stop lights, when starting up in the WalMart parking lot or when starting up in the office parking garage at the end of the work day.

The dealer's computer has revealed no faults.

I've had this before but it has gone away; it has just reappeared in the last week.

I am wondering if it could be coils or just some bad gas.

--Bob (04 CS, 22k miles)

alirob · 01-13-2008, 02:29 PM

rbaron,
Your story is similar to mine. I brought my 04 CS to the dealer several months ago, complaining of rough acceleration from low rpms. Their computer showed that all was normal. The problem got worse. After reading the posts on this thread, I went back to the dealer, armed with the TSB and emphasized the coils problem. They then replaced all the coils. For me the timing was critical since I had only very few miles left on my warranty. Persistence was the key to my success. I did pay for a set of new plugs.

mudman2 · 01-13-2008, 04:24 PM

sounds just like coils, ask them to look for the cracks

rbaron · 01-14-2008, 11:51 AM

Thanks for the replies.

I just called the dealer and will run it by after lunch so they can check for fault codes.

I have just checked my service records and see my prior complaints were due to rough idle and slow speed miss/lurching when cold. This latest roughness is at idle when warm.

If that is diagnostic.....

Anyway, I have two immediate questions:

(1) The service writer said she would expect the Check Engine light to come on if it was coils....it did not. Would you expect it to / did you see it come on when this occurred to you?

(2) Assuming no faults shown on the computer, how difficult is it to get to the coils to inspect them visually?

Many thanks,

--Bob

alsamrob · 01-14-2008, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbaron

Thanks for the replies.

I just called the dealer and will run it by after lunch so they can check for fault codes.

I have just checked my service records and see my prior complaints were due to rough idle and slow speed miss/lurching when cold. This latest roughness is at idle when warm.

If that is diagnostic.....

Anyway, I have two immediate questions:

(1) The service writer said she would expect the Check Engine light to come on if it was coils....it did not. Would you expect it to / did you see it come on when this occurred to you?

(2) Assuming no faults shown on the computer, how difficult is it to get to the coils to inspect them visually?

Many thanks,

--Bob

Just dropped mine off for the 40k service. Had the same complaint, got the same response. Kept pushing, told it is really not a matter of if, but when they go. Asked them to visually inspect the coils to see what the part number was. Let you know how I make out. I have a pretty good service team.

alsamrob · 01-14-2008, 06:20 PM

Ok, just finished with service, and despite my adamant demands, (ok abject pleading at this point), they are reluctant to swap out the coils. They said that the visually inspected them and did not see any cracks. Their advice: If it happens again and you are near us, stop in and we will get the code and swap them out. I have no faults, and no CEL. In fact, my symptoms are very minor and intermittent at best (worst).

I read somewhere hear where you could force the fault. If anyone has that info, and or any thoughts on how to get the coils done, please pm me.

rbaron · 01-14-2008, 06:31 PM

Just got back from the dealer. Although the check engine light never did come on, the tech found a fault in #6 (intermittent misfire) and they will replace all 8 coils Wednesday.

He said if it had got a little bit worse the check engine light would have come on but he was able to see it occasionally misfire when he had it on the computer.

I asked him about the possible need for new plugs and he said he didn't think it needed them.....he said in an engine 'this young' (22k miles) it would be extremely unlikely for these multipath plugs to be fouled to the point of needing replacement.

This guy has been around Porsches almost as long as I have (and that is a long time) and I trust his skill and judgment.

btw, I asked him if you could visually see the cracks in coils and he said not normally in his experience.

jumper5836 · 01-15-2008, 09:24 PM

Just got my 90km service done, we've been complaining about the damn coils forever. The Cayenne shakes when at idle and has even stalled on more then a handful of times but never had a check engine light come on.
They finnally replaced the coils with the new part # and found them cracked. Replaced under emmisions warranty. My Cayenne is not under new car anymore.

rbaron · 01-16-2008, 02:16 PM

Just got back from the dealer's.....I'm still under warranty (ends in May; gotta do something by then) and they replaced all 8 coils ('04 CS, 22k miles, part # ending in 00) with new coils (part # ending in 03).

The tech pulled a spark plug to satisfy himself (well, to satisfy me) there is no sign of fouling. He showed it to me....as if I can tell; it's probably been 40 years since I took a serious look at a spark plug and they (and I) were a lot different back then.

jumper5836 · 01-16-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbaron

Just got back from the dealer's.....I'm still under warranty (ends in May; gotta do something by then) and they replaced all 8 coils ('04 CS, 22k miles, part # ending in 00) with new coils (part # ending in 03).

The tech pulled a spark plug to satisfy himself (well, to satisfy me) there is no sign of fouling. He showed it to me....as if I can tell; it's probably been 40 years since I took a serious look at a spark plug and they (and I) were a lot different back then.

Hows it drive now?

rbaron · 01-16-2008, 02:39 PM

It seemed ok on the expressway but I need to spend some time with it before I can give you a definitive report.

How is yours driving with the new coils?

12-27-2007, 02:43 PM	#33
Sam CS 05 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: New England Posts: 638	when I asked the service manager why plugs not replaced, he said they were fine and not every case of coils needs plug replacement. He assured me that what was one was the correct service. I have no solid evidence of not trusting him. I guess, I'll pay for the plugs during 60 k service. Sam __________________ 2001 996 TT 2005 Cayenne S (+PASM) 2005 Volvo XC90 gone: 2003 Boxster 2001 BMW 530i 1995 Saab 9000 CSE

01-13-2008, 01:07 AM	#35
rbaron User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 192	I am having a very intermittent rough idle....such as at stop lights, when starting up in the WalMart parking lot or when starting up in the office parking garage at the end of the work day. The dealer's computer has revealed no faults. I've had this before but it has gone away; it has just reappeared in the last week. I am wondering if it could be coils or just some bad gas. --Bob (04 CS, 22k miles) Last edited by rbaron; 01-13-2008 at 01:09 AM. Reason: grammar

01-13-2008, 04:24 PM	#37
mudman2 Moderator Rennlist Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Southeastern PA Posts: 3,386	sounds just like coils, ask them to look for the cracks __________________ Michael Mudditt Cayenne S, Titanium Metalic / Black, PCM Air, BMC Air Filters, FabSpeed Cat Bypass Pipes and Dual Tips. MoBridge iPod / Sirius and BT gallery

01-14-2008, 06:20 PM	#40
alsamrob Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: MA Posts: 208	Ok, just finished with service, and despite my adamant demands, (ok abject pleading at this point), they are reluctant to swap out the coils. They said that the visually inspected them and did not see any cracks. Their advice: If it happens again and you are near us, stop in and we will get the code and swap them out. I have no faults, and no CEL. In fact, my symptoms are very minor and intermittent at best (worst). I read somewhere hear where you could force the fault. If anyone has that info, and or any thoughts on how to get the coils done, please pm me. __________________ 2004 CS Gone but loved 2002 MB 430 CLK Cab 1997 MB E320 (bulletproof) Gone and hated 2005 FX 45

01-16-2008, 02:16 PM	#43
rbaron User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 192	Just got back from the dealer's.....I'm still under warranty (ends in May; gotta do something by then) and they replaced all 8 coils ('04 CS, 22k miles, part # ending in 00) with new coils (part # ending in 03). The tech pulled a spark plug to satisfy himself (well, to satisfy me) there is no sign of fouling. He showed it to me....as if I can tell; it's probably been 40 years since I took a serious look at a spark plug and they (and I) were a lot different back then. Last edited by rbaron; 01-16-2008 at 02:17 PM. Reason: speling

12-23-2007, 10:37 AM	#31
ventuje User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 16	Hey Nexus 6, thanks for posting that work order, but jeez, did your dealer really stick you with a Hertz rental as a loaner? OUCH! I usually get another Cayenne or Audi as a loaner. I also had all coils replaced under warranty. Every once in a while you could feel a "bump" or two at red lights. I guess it was caught early as the plugs were OK according to my service manager. What is the Transmission ECU fix? Is it just a "flash" or new part? Did that smooth out your trans? Jeff

01-13-2008, 12:53 AM	#34
alirob User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 22	I want to thank you guys for alerting me about the defective coils. With only 200 miles left on my warranty, I brought my 04 CS to the dealer and complained about rough acceleration at low rpms. They replaced all the coils, no charge to me. Since they were doing the coils, i had them replace the plugs, which normally would be replaced at 60K. This way I avoided the labor cost; only paying for the plugs.

01-13-2008, 02:29 PM	#36
alirob User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 22	rbaron, Your story is similar to mine. I brought my 04 CS to the dealer several months ago, complaining of rough acceleration from low rpms. Their computer showed that all was normal. The problem got worse. After reading the posts on this thread, I went back to the dealer, armed with the TSB and emphasized the coils problem. They then replaced all the coils. For me the timing was critical since I had only very few miles left on my warranty. Persistence was the key to my success. I did pay for a set of new plugs.

01-14-2008, 11:51 AM	#38
rbaron User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 192	Thanks for the replies. I just called the dealer and will run it by after lunch so they can check for fault codes. I have just checked my service records and see my prior complaints were due to rough idle and slow speed miss/lurching when cold. This latest roughness is at idle when warm. If that is diagnostic..... Anyway, I have two immediate questions: (1) The service writer said she would expect the Check Engine light to come on if it was coils....it did not. Would you expect it to / did you see it come on when this occurred to you? (2) Assuming no faults shown on the computer, how difficult is it to get to the coils to inspect them visually? Many thanks, --Bob

01-14-2008, 06:31 PM	#41
rbaron User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 192	Just got back from the dealer. Although the check engine light never did come on, the tech found a fault in #6 (intermittent misfire) and they will replace all 8 coils Wednesday. He said if it had got a little bit worse the check engine light would have come on but he was able to see it occasionally misfire when he had it on the computer. I asked him about the possible need for new plugs and he said he didn't think it needed them.....he said in an engine 'this young' (22k miles) it would be extremely unlikely for these multipath plugs to be fouled to the point of needing replacement. This guy has been around Porsches almost as long as I have (and that is a long time) and I trust his skill and judgment. btw, I asked him if you could visually see the cracks in coils and he said not normally in his experience.

01-15-2008, 09:24 PM	#42
jumper5836 Super User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Etobicoke, Ont, CA Posts: 2,587	Just got my 90km service done, we've been complaining about the damn coils forever. The Cayenne shakes when at idle and has even stalled on more then a handful of times but never had a check engine light come on. They finnally replaced the coils with the new part # and found them cracked. Replaced under emmisions warranty. My Cayenne is not under new car anymore.

01-16-2008, 02:39 PM	#45
rbaron User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 192	It seemed ok on the expressway but I need to spend some time with it before I can give you a definitive report. How is yours driving with the new coils? Last edited by rbaron; 01-16-2008 at 02:41 PM. Reason: More thought