Moody

Hello!

My name is Kim and I’m from Sweden.
I’m planning to buy a Cayman S in the future.
Today a have another car that I’m very pleased with, but the dream is to have a Porsche one day.
I’m still young (24) and is only in the planning stage, but I have some questions I hope you could help me answer.
I found this site thanks to my boss. After I had the pleasure of driving his 993 targa and his new 997 turbo, my dreams about a Porsche have become even more powerful.

My earlier understanding was that a Porsche was a sportscar that you could drive everyday to work.
But after reading lots about a problem called IMS and RMS I’m not so sure that is the case anymore.

What is the difference between RMS and IMS failure/problem?
I have tried to search to get information which yearmodells that are “secure”.

The first production years seems to have the M96 engine which I think have problems ?
Is it fixed in the M97 engine?
When did the 2nd generation come? And witch engine do they have?

I have also read about som carbon building problem? What does this mean?

Is there any cayman S that do not have these IMS/RMS problems?

Look forward to hear from you experts.

//Kim

Bill Lehman

Tthe "Gen II" beginning in model year 2009 has the latest engine design and has no IMS (Intermediate Main Shaft). Some of the early models suffered from RMS (Rear Main Seal), an oil leak. This seems to be fixed. The Gen II use direct fuel injection which has been blamed for some carbon build-up. Other improvments have been made in the Gen II including a better oiling system. I'd recommend a 2009 or newer. I have a 2007 which gets most of its mileage on the track and my wife has a 2009 which I'm not allowed to drive. I would not hestitate to use either model as a daily driver.

Moody

thanks for your answer bill!

I must say that I love that you have one each!

If I´m understand you right, IMS and RMS is two different problems?
IMS seems to result in a complete engine failure, right or wrong?
Is the RMS problem also very "serious" ?
what happens if you get that problem?

It seems like I should wait until I have enough money to buy a -09.
2nd generation also has direct fuel injection, does that give you faster “response” and perhaps better fuel economy?
This carbon build up? Can someone please explain a little what happens and the result?
is it expensive to fix?

In my opinion the 06-08 are a little more good looking. Something with the lights.
is there a “facelift” on the 2nd generation?

If Im gonna buy a Cayman S, I will use it everyday to work (96 miles/day normal driving not racing).
But on the weekends do some “inspiring driving” on small curvy roads.
But not drive it wintertime because all the salt wear out the car fast.

You say you wouln´t hesitate to use gen 1 as a daily driver, but aren´t you afraid of IMS failure?
For me, this is my dream car which I hope to have for many years if I buy one and maybe I would be
almost afraid to use it if I buy a gen 1.

looking forward to hearing from you bill.

/Kim

Charlie C

Hi Kim,
I don't have a Cayman but I do have both a 2004 Boxster S (anniversary edition) and a 2006 911 C2 Cabriolet. I got my first Porsche when I was 23 and I can tell you that once you drive one, nothing else can take the place of a Porsche.

When you are ready, I do recommend getting a 2009 or newer as Bill mentioned. That will eliminate the IMS issue since it doesn't even have an IMS in the engine. The RMS (Rear Main Seal) oil leak is not a huge concern. My 1980 911 had a small one but it wasn't bad enough for me to even have it fixed. FYI: Neither of my current cars leak.

Once you get your Cayman, driving to and from work will be a JOY! So will every other trip. Best of luck!
Charlie

stevecolletti

Hi Kim,

Welcome to Rennlist!

Not all early cars see the IMS problem. My wife bought her 2000 Boxster S new and now has 128,000 miles. I bought a 2001 Boxster S and put 126,000 miles on it before selling it. Neither has shown any indication of the IMS issue.

IMS failure does result in a dead engine. If her engine died, I'd just put a crate 3.4 Carrera motor in it. It isn't that expensive.. at least not here in the US.

RMS is an oil leak from the rear main seal that can cause engine failure if you allow the oil level to get too low - that's a huge leak though and should be obvious - otherwise, it is an annoyance, sometimes a major one. My 2008 RS (10,000 street/highway miles/no track yet) just had this repaired under warranty.

DI does give better HP/Torque and better fuel consumption, but some engines have seen the carbon build-up/coking issue. I don't know how prevalent it is with Porsches; I've only heard of one, personally, but am aware of several Audis that have had that issue. It seems to be an issue (primarily) with cars that are not driven hard enough (no full throttle/no redline).

Once you have Porsche, it will be hard to have anything else.
Good luck finding your dream car!

Bill Lehman

It looks like other posters have answered your questions. A Cayman without winter tires is useless in snow.

juniormarbles

I had started a thread with a similar subject on the 987 forum.

It's been discussed here, there, and everywhere. Hints, scare stories, engine losses in the five digits, and yet: no one seems to have been able to get a fix on the frequency of RMS and IMS failures, let alone, preventative measures to avoid catastrophic engine failures in the first place.

I've also read lots of answers in Panorama's Tech Q&A to these questions- the publication with the closest link to the motherhship- all answers remain nebulous and none has been helpful in pinning down what percentage of engines is actually affected.

Anecdotal info only goes so far: naturally, we hear from distressed owners about engines that were afflicted and want to share their grief. But are these 1%, 5%, 10% or more of a given model? Isn't it a bit irresponsible to keep referring to IMS failures and to recommend to stay away from three model years altogether, if those who opine cannot offer any firm numbers or probabilities?

If this was occurring in, say, 1% of all engines, I'd take that chance. But I have not seen any numbers presented anywhere, from any credible source, so the alarming talk does not seem to be based on actionable information:

To my knowledge, Porsche has not released percentages of RMS or IMS failures of any of its engines of any period- 996 through 986/7 through 997/2. The company seems to have gone the financially and legally smart route that avoids a recall or class-action suit in the U.S.: fix it under the radar on warranty or courtesy, don't document, don't give out numbers.

But, just like the thread starter, I need to make a prudent investment into my next vehicle of pleasure. How can I prevent becoming a victim when I buy a used 2006 to 2008 Cayman S whose repair might cost me up to 1/3 of the purchase price?

A small oil drip or some wetness in the affected area will give away an RMS problem, that's easy, and I can even live with it, and I probably will not be able to prevent it from happening, even on a car that was dry when I bought it (resale value is another story).

But the IMS-issue? Am I supposed to drive with a light foot on the gas to prevent stress on materials? Would be no fun at all and seems counterproductive to owning a Porsche in the first place- these engines don't come alive and give true pleasure until hit with some revs. And the seal? I cannot even think of anything I could do to postpone or minimize seepage.

Is there anything new I don't know yet about this problem worth sharing?

Thanks,
JM

stevecolletti

I wish real percentages were available, too. But that is pretty hard to do given the way many of these cars are driven. To a lot of people, Porsches are a weekend toy, not a daily driver. One has no difficulty finding cars that have been driven an average of less than 4,000 miles a year. At this rate, engines have barely started to loosen up, warranty expires with 12-15,000 miles on a car - hardly enough time to find or correct any manufacturing issue. I'm not defending Porsche - I just see how hard it is to come up with a definitive answer.

Issues #183 (June 2010) and #184 (Aug 2010) of Excellence Magazine had pretty good discussions of the IMS issue and 'fixes' (including pictures).

Neither of our Boxster Ss have ever had the RMS issue. Both cars have been driven as intended hard, never with a light foot. My car never had a hint of the IMS issue. Her car has the odd 'growl' sound at mid throttle between 3500 and 3800 that has been described as an IMS 'warning' sign. That started about 14,000 miles ago.

When you look at the cost of the repair/update (with still no guaranteed 'fix'), installing a take-out, rebuilt, or Porsche crate motor seemed more cost effective, and you get 300+ HP in the bargain.

G550guy

I have found an 06 S that looks pretty appealing to me. Now, having read the above post, I am wary. What does IMS stand for and how much of a liability would it be? Any info would be great. Thanks.

stevecolletti

Intermediate Shaft. It's effectively an idler that locates the timing chains. Again, the Excellence article is very good. You can see some of it in this link from Pelican parts http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...erTech-162.htm.

In my experience, the IMS issue is over-rated, but as JM said, it's hard to quantify. Some engines have had the 'fix', but while it is better, it doesn't sound like a panacea.

If I were buying one of these cars used - that is out of its warranty period, and I can't have it CPO'd - I'd want a car with at least 28,000 miles (and preferably, 7,500+ miles a year) and good maintenance records.

G550guy

thanks, that's some scary stuff for a guy that just wants to have a trouble free drive. I guess I'd rather spend more upfront for that assurance. BUT, the car looks very good with only 11K miles on it.

stevecolletti

IMO...
You can get a 3.4 take-out engine for ~$6K, a rebuilt (including 'the fix') for ~$6-10K and a Porsche crate motor for a very variable number. The conversion is as close to a bolt-in (though you'd want the S's 3rd radiator) as you can get. 3.2 engines are somewhat cheaper. You (or any decent mechanic) can do the swap or Porsche will charge $2-3K (2008 number).

If you like the car, make sure that a portion (half?) of an engine replacement amount is built into the price you pay. Odds are you won't need it, though with only 11K miles on a 2006, I wonder how many other things were never caught.

G550guy

I thought if I really like it, I would take it to a Porsche specialist and have them go over it. That may help mitigate any unknowns.

stevecolletti

Yes. Even if the Porsche specialist gives it the thumb's-up, I'd have a dealership do the Pre-purchase Inspection too. It's worth the cost on a car that you don't know. They can also tell you how the car was serviced and what issues were found/repaired. Don't forget to check its CarFax.

All that said, if your worry is IMS, (even if the IMS bearing update was performed) there is no guarantee that it can't just fail. That's what makes this so hard to quantify.

They are great cars and you will love having, and, hopefully, driving it.

G550guy

Good advise, thanks