Considering a 997.1 Cup as a DE car.
08-10-2020, 02:41 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Considering a 997.1 Cup as a DE car.
Considering a 997.1 Cup as a DE car. DE for several years in a track prepped 993 and Spec Boxster, now looking for something faster but without a 6-figure initial spend.
Questions… specific things to avoid? Typical failure points? Parts availability? IMS issues, I believe the 997.1 Cup has a non-DFI M97 engine? Thoughts on paddle shift conversion and ABS? Suggestions for a different P car? Appreciate any advice input. Thanks.
Questions… specific things to avoid? Typical failure points? Parts availability? IMS issues, I believe the 997.1 Cup has a non-DFI M97 engine? Thoughts on paddle shift conversion and ABS? Suggestions for a different P car? Appreciate any advice input. Thanks.
08-10-2020, 03:20 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Considering a 997.1 Cup as a DE car. DE for several years in a track prepped 993 and Spec Boxster, now looking for something faster but without a 6-figure initial spend.
Questions… specific things to avoid? Typical failure points? Parts availability? IMS issues, I believe the 997.1 Cup has a non-DFI M97 engine? Thoughts on paddle shift conversion and ABS? Suggestions for a different P car? Appreciate any advice input. Thanks.
Questions… specific things to avoid? Typical failure points? Parts availability? IMS issues, I believe the 997.1 Cup has a non-DFI M97 engine? Thoughts on paddle shift conversion and ABS? Suggestions for a different P car? Appreciate any advice input. Thanks.
08-10-2020, 04:06 PM
#4
Instructor
My quick and dirty.
Run cost is going to be substantially higher, it "can" be run without a shop but that can lead to more worries.
Parts are cheaper than street cars though. No IMS issues on racecars.
Paddles and ABS are frankly required. You will **** up the gearbox if you dont know how to use it, gentle shifts=repair bill.
ABS will pay for itself extremely quickly. Whether its from flatspots galore or where a lockup would have put you in a wall, get abs.
Here's my main pet peeve, it may apply here but it might not at all. When getting a racecar, scraping by just isnt worth it.
Willing to buy sets of tires when they're roasted after a weekend? Far too many racecars get driven on old af and worn down tires because guys are trying to get every single dollar out of them, putting wasted hours onto the car with 50% of the value extracted out of those laps.
Wiling to risk some damage? No point in buying a car and driving it in fear of damage. A SB is one thing, but a Cup is something new.
IMO too many people reach for cups when they're better suited for the budget of Caymans or something under a cup.
Just know what you're getting in for, if it's all good, then send it as nothing beats a cup car! Just dont want people getting in over their heads.
Run cost is going to be substantially higher, it "can" be run without a shop but that can lead to more worries.
Parts are cheaper than street cars though. No IMS issues on racecars.
Paddles and ABS are frankly required. You will **** up the gearbox if you dont know how to use it, gentle shifts=repair bill.
ABS will pay for itself extremely quickly. Whether its from flatspots galore or where a lockup would have put you in a wall, get abs.
Here's my main pet peeve, it may apply here but it might not at all. When getting a racecar, scraping by just isnt worth it.
Willing to buy sets of tires when they're roasted after a weekend? Far too many racecars get driven on old af and worn down tires because guys are trying to get every single dollar out of them, putting wasted hours onto the car with 50% of the value extracted out of those laps.
Wiling to risk some damage? No point in buying a car and driving it in fear of damage. A SB is one thing, but a Cup is something new.
IMO too many people reach for cups when they're better suited for the budget of Caymans or something under a cup.
Just know what you're getting in for, if it's all good, then send it as nothing beats a cup car! Just dont want people getting in over their heads.
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08-10-2020, 04:31 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
My quick and dirty.
Run cost is going to be substantially higher, it "can" be run without a shop but that can lead to more worries.
Parts are cheaper than street cars though. No IMS issues on racecars.
Paddles and ABS are frankly required. You will **** up the gearbox if you dont know how to use it, gentle shifts=repair bill.
ABS will pay for itself extremely quickly. Whether its from flatspots galore or where a lockup would have put you in a wall, get abs.
Here's my main pet peeve, it may apply here but it might not at all. When getting a racecar, scraping by just isnt worth it.
Willing to buy sets of tires when they're roasted after a weekend? Far too many racecars get driven on old af and worn down tires because guys are trying to get every single dollar out of them, putting wasted hours onto the car with 50% of the value extracted out of those laps.
Wiling to risk some damage? No point in buying a car and driving it in fear of damage. A SB is one thing, but a Cup is something new.
IMO too many people reach for cups when they're better suited for the budget of Caymans or something under a cup.
Just know what you're getting in for, if it's all good, then send it as nothing beats a cup car! Just dont want people getting in over their heads.
Run cost is going to be substantially higher, it "can" be run without a shop but that can lead to more worries.
Parts are cheaper than street cars though. No IMS issues on racecars.
Paddles and ABS are frankly required. You will **** up the gearbox if you dont know how to use it, gentle shifts=repair bill.
ABS will pay for itself extremely quickly. Whether its from flatspots galore or where a lockup would have put you in a wall, get abs.
Here's my main pet peeve, it may apply here but it might not at all. When getting a racecar, scraping by just isnt worth it.
Willing to buy sets of tires when they're roasted after a weekend? Far too many racecars get driven on old af and worn down tires because guys are trying to get every single dollar out of them, putting wasted hours onto the car with 50% of the value extracted out of those laps.
Wiling to risk some damage? No point in buying a car and driving it in fear of damage. A SB is one thing, but a Cup is something new.
IMO too many people reach for cups when they're better suited for the budget of Caymans or something under a cup.
Just know what you're getting in for, if it's all good, then send it as nothing beats a cup car! Just dont want people getting in over their heads.
08-10-2020, 05:22 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
CUP cars are very rewarding to drive. these cars work better if you push them hard. this is hard to do in a DE... eg if you dont line up first its hard to get heat in the tires first lap so you are stuck longer in traffic and if you line up first you catch the backmarkers on lap 2
in most DEs and their run groups you will spend most time waiting for a point. there are exceptions eg the cups group of cups and saucers at the glen and there are probably a few others (david murry open track is not bad either)
it is personal but for me being the biggest dog is less fun. I only DE my 996 cup as on DMTD prior to a race as most there consider it testing for the race and my home track.
in most DEs and their run groups you will spend most time waiting for a point. there are exceptions eg the cups group of cups and saucers at the glen and there are probably a few others (david murry open track is not bad either)
it is personal but for me being the biggest dog is less fun. I only DE my 996 cup as on DMTD prior to a race as most there consider it testing for the race and my home track.
08-10-2020, 07:59 PM
#7
I will second Marc and say you will likely be frustrated in a Cup in a DE environment. You will be faster than anything out there sans other cups and well driven, high horsepower purpose built race cars and Andrew Aquilante in anything beyond a shopping cart.
Even in advanced groups without a point, I still feel a bit apprehensive blasting by street cars knowing they don't have near the level of safety gear compared to mine, nor do I necessarily know their experience or comfort level with a race car side by side at corner apex.
Even in advanced groups without a point, I still feel a bit apprehensive blasting by street cars knowing they don't have near the level of safety gear compared to mine, nor do I necessarily know their experience or comfort level with a race car side by side at corner apex.
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08-10-2020, 10:41 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
CUP cars are very rewarding to drive. these cars work better if you push them hard. this is hard to do in a DE... eg if you dont line up first its hard to get heat in the tires first lap so you are stuck longer in traffic and if you line up first you catch the backmarkers on lap 2
in most DEs and their run groups you will spend most time waiting for a point. there are exceptions eg the cups group of cups and saucers at the glen and there are probably a few others (david murry open track is not bad either)
it is personal but for me being the biggest dog is less fun. I only DE my 996 cup as on DMTD prior to a race as most there consider it testing for the race and my home track.
in most DEs and their run groups you will spend most time waiting for a point. there are exceptions eg the cups group of cups and saucers at the glen and there are probably a few others (david murry open track is not bad either)
it is personal but for me being the biggest dog is less fun. I only DE my 996 cup as on DMTD prior to a race as most there consider it testing for the race and my home track.
Looks like you've switched to DE'ing a GT4 - considered this but figured I'd feel safer with a full cage around me.
08-10-2020, 11:05 PM
#9
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
There is nothing like the reliability of a well maintained factory race car. Problem is that on a 997 Cup the gear box rebuilds are at around $400 per running hour. Ouch! If you want ABS and paddle shift you might want to look into a GtT4 Clubsport or look at a 996 Cup with a no issues gearbox.
08-11-2020, 02:02 AM
#10
The 996 cup is definately then cheapest in running costs, still being a real factory race car. Lots of parts fit from the street cars too which can be found everywhere. ABS is on board already.
08-11-2020, 09:05 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
IMO, the GT4 clubsport is the best choice for a factory race car in a DE environment. It is the most expensive to buy, but the running cost are very reasonable. As stated before, a 997.1 is great but the transmission is the big issue. They can go 60-70 hrs if well driven or destroyed in 1 weekend. They also are getting pretty old. The newest one is a 2009 and in race car years, that's getting up there. That is also the problem with a 996 cup. They are old cars and It is hard to find nice ones that haven't been hammered. A 996 is much more DE friendly though. Basically a stripped down GT3 street car. The clutch can be a little tricky, and don't let it overheat by idling too long but otherwise its pretty much like any other car.
08-11-2020, 10:17 AM
#12
I’ve got a few friends with 997 cups used for DE purpose, they don’t have nearly as much fun as I do in my cayman, due to the cost and experience needed to drive one to its full potential. I also recommend a cayman or clubsport. I’ve got a beautiful GTB1 prepped 981 Cayman S with low miles and less than 1,000 track miles. I’m considering selling. The perfect DE car especially if you want to hunt down GT3s. PM me if you want some more info.
08-11-2020, 11:09 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
Biased but 996 Cup to me is the way to go - More robust trans, Factory Engineered Cage-no price on safety, very reliable motors, can be supported by yourself easily -I do it, as fast as 997 cups and may I dare dare say faster then 997.1 dont ask why I think its just the total package works, Tires are big expense but there are cheaper alternatives where the car wont be as fast but much cheaper the Pirelli
Back some years ago me and a buddy bought 7x 996 cup cars sold 5 most of them went to DE guys that were hesitant for same reasons. Everyone of them will tell you it was a great move, they love there cars and they never want to sell them. NO street car I have ever driven on track and I have driven some of the worlds fastest can compare to a Cup car in terms of driver feedback and enjoyment.
Back some years ago me and a buddy bought 7x 996 cup cars sold 5 most of them went to DE guys that were hesitant for same reasons. Everyone of them will tell you it was a great move, they love there cars and they never want to sell them. NO street car I have ever driven on track and I have driven some of the worlds fastest can compare to a Cup car in terms of driver feedback and enjoyment.
08-11-2020, 12:38 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
I moved from a street 996 GT3 to a 996 Cup. Solid cars and I'm able to do all the wrenching myself. The tranny is basically stock GT3. Steve113 got it right above and already having ABS is a plus. The difference in driving experience between the street and Cup GT3 is big, and the Cup just puts a big smile on your face. There are a bunch out there for sale right now.
08-11-2020, 02:42 PM
#15
I moved from a street 996 GT3 to a 996 Cup. Solid cars and I'm able to do all the wrenching myself. The tranny is basically stock GT3. Steve113 got it right above and already having ABS is a plus. The difference in driving experience between the street and Cup GT3 is big, and the Cup just puts a big smile on your face. There are a bunch out there for sale right now.
