How is the CGT selling in General??
07-30-2005, 05:49 PM
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How is the CGT selling in General??
I was at Momentum Porsche in Houston Friday for some repairs on my 996 and noticed that they had 2 CGTs in the showroom. Got to talking with one of the sales guys and commented on how the dealiership must hate having those two cars sitting around costing 'em money. He then told me that they actually had four just then and that the Momentum auto group had 10 in total at that point in time. Are these things not moving? Or is it just the Texas market?
07-30-2005, 06:47 PM
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I was advised by a friend at a dealership that over 400 of the approximately 625 allotted for NA are in owners hands now. As an owner of a CGT I couldn't be happier it has exceeded all my expectations in every regard.
07-30-2005, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Quam
I was advised by a friend at a dealership that over 400 of the approximately 625 allotted for NA are in owners hands now. As an owner of a CGT I couldn't be happier it has exceeded all my expectations in every regard.
All things considered it is Porsches flagship car. This should not be happening.
07-30-2005, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick
Les, you know cars and car values as well as anyone. Forgetting your a CGT ownership, can you explain why this car hasn't performed well in the sale and resale market? You bought yours at a substantial discount off MSRP and when I see a new 2004 going for $361,000 (msrp was $448,500) it makes me ask what in the world happened to this car?
All things considered it is Porsches flagship car. This should not be happening.
All things considered it is Porsches flagship car. This should not be happening.
07-30-2005, 08:56 PM
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The simple answer is Porsche produced too many of the cars too quickly. It will be interesting once all of the cars have been purchased from the dealers in North America. I believe at that point the price will stabilize or go up, but only time will tell.
Once people realize that they can't get a new car anymore, they are going to have to resort to the used market. My car and many others will NEVER be sold, then when you include the cars that have been damaged or totaled the number starts shrinking pretty fast. My advice to anyone thinking about getting a CGT is work out a great deal on a new one and take pride in knowing you have the greatest car being sold today.
Once people realize that they can't get a new car anymore, they are going to have to resort to the used market. My car and many others will NEVER be sold, then when you include the cars that have been damaged or totaled the number starts shrinking pretty fast. My advice to anyone thinking about getting a CGT is work out a great deal on a new one and take pride in knowing you have the greatest car being sold today.
07-30-2005, 09:39 PM
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He who is known as an early riser can stay in bed until noon. An old proverb, and the nature of reputations and impressions.
Unfortunatelly the CGT has established that it can't maintain value and no amount of "wishful thinking" can restore it. The biggest problem being that Porsche scared away too many genuine buyers by raising production (and price). They may have got away with one but not both...they did the same thing, to a lesser degree, with the TT starting in 01.
It may have part of the "internet euphoria and greed" fed by a dealer network that, for the most part, wanted to speculate on the success of this car. By holding on to production slots and discouraging genuine interest in the hopes of catching a "fish" they turned away many potential buyers. Dealer greed may have contributed to Porsches folly, it's ironic that the dealers are sitting on the cars with few buyers in sight.
Now, those potential buyers are waiting and watching as prices continue to fall. The abundant supply, horror stories and maintenance costs are going to keep those interested (and patient) on the sidelines for quite a while. How do I know all this..at many dealers I experienced it, and great as the car is, I have no desire to "flutter" away $100K, but at the same time I never expected to make money (or speculate) on the car.
Around $350K you may see a few "disappointed" come out of the woodwork, the dealers still won't take them on trade (at reasonable prices) and that says it all for the moment.
I f you think this car is going to increase in value, anytime soon......pleasant dreams!
Unfortunatelly the CGT has established that it can't maintain value and no amount of "wishful thinking" can restore it. The biggest problem being that Porsche scared away too many genuine buyers by raising production (and price). They may have got away with one but not both...they did the same thing, to a lesser degree, with the TT starting in 01.
It may have part of the "internet euphoria and greed" fed by a dealer network that, for the most part, wanted to speculate on the success of this car. By holding on to production slots and discouraging genuine interest in the hopes of catching a "fish" they turned away many potential buyers. Dealer greed may have contributed to Porsches folly, it's ironic that the dealers are sitting on the cars with few buyers in sight.
Now, those potential buyers are waiting and watching as prices continue to fall. The abundant supply, horror stories and maintenance costs are going to keep those interested (and patient) on the sidelines for quite a while. How do I know all this..at many dealers I experienced it, and great as the car is, I have no desire to "flutter" away $100K, but at the same time I never expected to make money (or speculate) on the car.
Around $350K you may see a few "disappointed" come out of the woodwork, the dealers still won't take them on trade (at reasonable prices) and that says it all for the moment.
I f you think this car is going to increase in value, anytime soon......pleasant dreams!
Last edited by PogueMoHone; 07-30-2005 at 09:41 PM. Reason: edited for typo!
07-31-2005, 12:07 AM
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Like all luxury items, the market is small. Take median price homes as an example. When the median price is 150K, houses in that range are snapped up. But houses that cost 4 times that much account for only 1% of the market (that statistic is accurate, the median number varies)
When the luxury item is relatively cheap, like a premium golf club, many people with ordinary incomes will splurge on themselves to buy one. But when it is expensive, they can't.
Jaguar couldn't sell it's super premium car (though the 6 cylinder engine was a factor). The Lamborghini market is actually tiny. Ferrari is an exception, but their super premium cars are also produced in tiny quantities.
Many people on this board are probably in the top 1% of earners, but fewer than 1% of them could buy a CGT, and most of those won't because the car is unrepairable unless 50 grand is a small number to you. I am one of those people who have spent a fortune on satisfying my automotive passion. But, when I looked at a CGT, my annual income is still one zero away (assume you need 7 zeros, 6 is definitely not enough).
Where will used prices settle? The McClaren F1 seems to have done well, but there are only about 100 of those. The Enzo seems OK for the moment, but look at the F40 which hit a million but is now less than a third of that. People have paid over 200K for a TestaRossa, which can now be bought for a fourth of that.
My guess is that off-warranty CGT's will fall more than 50% in value. Those that are sold will hardly ever be driven. As a confirmed caraholic, would I buy at that price? Probably not, since I like to drive my cars. To keep values high, Porsche would need to emulate Hundai with super long guarantees.
Somehow, I don't think they will.
Still, I hope I'm wrong. If I am wrong, Porsche and others may try this grand experiment again. If I am not, they won't. Any guess on whether the Veyron will be successful? My guess is not. AS
When the luxury item is relatively cheap, like a premium golf club, many people with ordinary incomes will splurge on themselves to buy one. But when it is expensive, they can't.
Jaguar couldn't sell it's super premium car (though the 6 cylinder engine was a factor). The Lamborghini market is actually tiny. Ferrari is an exception, but their super premium cars are also produced in tiny quantities.
Many people on this board are probably in the top 1% of earners, but fewer than 1% of them could buy a CGT, and most of those won't because the car is unrepairable unless 50 grand is a small number to you. I am one of those people who have spent a fortune on satisfying my automotive passion. But, when I looked at a CGT, my annual income is still one zero away (assume you need 7 zeros, 6 is definitely not enough).
Where will used prices settle? The McClaren F1 seems to have done well, but there are only about 100 of those. The Enzo seems OK for the moment, but look at the F40 which hit a million but is now less than a third of that. People have paid over 200K for a TestaRossa, which can now be bought for a fourth of that.
My guess is that off-warranty CGT's will fall more than 50% in value. Those that are sold will hardly ever be driven. As a confirmed caraholic, would I buy at that price? Probably not, since I like to drive my cars. To keep values high, Porsche would need to emulate Hundai with super long guarantees.
Somehow, I don't think they will.
Still, I hope I'm wrong. If I am wrong, Porsche and others may try this grand experiment again. If I am not, they won't. Any guess on whether the Veyron will be successful? My guess is not. AS
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07-31-2005, 01:14 AM
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IMHO the CGT market was hurt by generally terrible press which led me and Ben for that matter to cancel our intial orders. I was able to get my deposit back but we were unable to get Ben's back. As a result Ben bought his car and loved it. After hearing him rave about it and dismiss the clutch issue I arranged for a ride and drive in one.
One ride and upon hearing the exhaust note was all it took and Ben found me a great deal at Pioneer where I met Chris Huck and had a FANTASTIC buyer experience when I picked up the car.
I have since my purchase given several rides to people in my CGT which has caused three other people to buy CGTs who were not going to otherwise buy one. This is a car whose reputation will grow by word of mouth very slowly.
In regard to value's it is a new car and will not escape the normal depreciation cycle for any new car absent perhaps an Enzo. However bear in mind that this Porsche unlike the 911 series car is a model unto itself and will eventually hold it's value in a more stable manner than a 911. The problem with the 911 series from a collector and value standpoint IMHO is that the driving experience and looks have never varied dramaticlly from generation to generation. This evolutionary design plan has led to the most reliable supercar ever built but not one that excites passion in people at a high end collector auction such as Pebble Beach or Barrett Jackson.
However one VERY positve note is that the people buying the CGT today know the value of their CGT is going to drop over the next few years. They know that when they buy it, but are STILL buying it anyway. I for an example knew the value's were going to continue to drop but wanted to be the original owner where I knew the paint was original and the car had never been abused. I also wanted the experience and memories of driving it off the showroom floor. In other words todays buyers of a CGT are in it for the long haul. Today's buyers are not speculators but are long term collectors or driving enthusiasts or both.
IMHO the significance of enthusiasts and not speculators buying the cars means their will be less available for sale. When you factor in that demand will slowly start to climb with word of mouth and the completion of the build run being made more public I believe prices will start to stabilize. I cite for precedent the muscle car market. Many of todays premuim cars sat unsold on dealer lots for years in the 1960s. Dealers couldn't give away their superbirds and Cobra's. Some muscle cars today sell for millions of dollars.
My theory is that todays CGT buyer who is an enthusiast or collector and who holds unto the car for many years will be rewarded. Another example are the Porsche 94 and 97 turbo S cars. The 94 turbo S in flachbau trim sold for over 150K new. Prices dropped to as low as 70K but now a nice example trades hands in days for 110K to 120K and that is over a period of 11 years. I realize that their were only 39 flachbau S cars made but they are only 380 HP and are simply a variation of the 964 model. Not a lot of difference from a standard 1994 964 turbo.
Another example is the 1997 turbo S which sold new for about 150K in 97 and could be bought for as low as 80K last year. Prices are firming somewhat for nice examples and are trading again for a nice low mile no story car around 120K. I have been offered 135K hard money for mine and won't sell because I know I can't easily find another as nice with a verifiable owner history. That price firming is over a period of 7 years on a car of which 176 were made.
More imortantly I have owned both a 97 turbo S and and standard 1997 turbo. I can't tell the difference from the extra 24 HP found on the S and the looks are not significanlty different IMHO. In other words it is the same model but with some tweeks. Unlike the CGT which is a one off type of car. Yet the 97 S market is firming up much faster than anyone predicted.
So Nick I think what killed the CGT market was bad press and flooding the USA with two years worth of cars in one model year. For those who think there are not enough high end buyers out there. Come to Barrett Jackson and watch the 250,000 people plus those bidding at home pay 700K for a 71 HEMI cuda or Pebble beach and watch the 200,000 people bid millions on those old cobras and duesys. The muscle car and classic vintage car market is on fire because of low supply and high demand from boomers like us in their peak earnings years.
I for one am not worried about my CGT value because this car is the all around finest car I have ever driven and it is not for sale. Therefore what it would bring at an auction is not important to me and every enthusiast and collector who bought one recently.
One ride and upon hearing the exhaust note was all it took and Ben found me a great deal at Pioneer where I met Chris Huck and had a FANTASTIC buyer experience when I picked up the car.
I have since my purchase given several rides to people in my CGT which has caused three other people to buy CGTs who were not going to otherwise buy one. This is a car whose reputation will grow by word of mouth very slowly.
In regard to value's it is a new car and will not escape the normal depreciation cycle for any new car absent perhaps an Enzo. However bear in mind that this Porsche unlike the 911 series car is a model unto itself and will eventually hold it's value in a more stable manner than a 911. The problem with the 911 series from a collector and value standpoint IMHO is that the driving experience and looks have never varied dramaticlly from generation to generation. This evolutionary design plan has led to the most reliable supercar ever built but not one that excites passion in people at a high end collector auction such as Pebble Beach or Barrett Jackson.
However one VERY positve note is that the people buying the CGT today know the value of their CGT is going to drop over the next few years. They know that when they buy it, but are STILL buying it anyway. I for an example knew the value's were going to continue to drop but wanted to be the original owner where I knew the paint was original and the car had never been abused. I also wanted the experience and memories of driving it off the showroom floor. In other words todays buyers of a CGT are in it for the long haul. Today's buyers are not speculators but are long term collectors or driving enthusiasts or both.
IMHO the significance of enthusiasts and not speculators buying the cars means their will be less available for sale. When you factor in that demand will slowly start to climb with word of mouth and the completion of the build run being made more public I believe prices will start to stabilize. I cite for precedent the muscle car market. Many of todays premuim cars sat unsold on dealer lots for years in the 1960s. Dealers couldn't give away their superbirds and Cobra's. Some muscle cars today sell for millions of dollars.
My theory is that todays CGT buyer who is an enthusiast or collector and who holds unto the car for many years will be rewarded. Another example are the Porsche 94 and 97 turbo S cars. The 94 turbo S in flachbau trim sold for over 150K new. Prices dropped to as low as 70K but now a nice example trades hands in days for 110K to 120K and that is over a period of 11 years. I realize that their were only 39 flachbau S cars made but they are only 380 HP and are simply a variation of the 964 model. Not a lot of difference from a standard 1994 964 turbo.
Another example is the 1997 turbo S which sold new for about 150K in 97 and could be bought for as low as 80K last year. Prices are firming somewhat for nice examples and are trading again for a nice low mile no story car around 120K. I have been offered 135K hard money for mine and won't sell because I know I can't easily find another as nice with a verifiable owner history. That price firming is over a period of 7 years on a car of which 176 were made.
More imortantly I have owned both a 97 turbo S and and standard 1997 turbo. I can't tell the difference from the extra 24 HP found on the S and the looks are not significanlty different IMHO. In other words it is the same model but with some tweeks. Unlike the CGT which is a one off type of car. Yet the 97 S market is firming up much faster than anyone predicted.
So Nick I think what killed the CGT market was bad press and flooding the USA with two years worth of cars in one model year. For those who think there are not enough high end buyers out there. Come to Barrett Jackson and watch the 250,000 people plus those bidding at home pay 700K for a 71 HEMI cuda or Pebble beach and watch the 200,000 people bid millions on those old cobras and duesys. The muscle car and classic vintage car market is on fire because of low supply and high demand from boomers like us in their peak earnings years.
I for one am not worried about my CGT value because this car is the all around finest car I have ever driven and it is not for sale. Therefore what it would bring at an auction is not important to me and every enthusiast and collector who bought one recently.
07-31-2005, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Les Quam
IMHO the CGT market was hurt by generally terrible press which led me and Ben for that matter to cancel our intial orders. I was able to get my deposit back but we were unable to get Ben's back. As a result Ben bought his car and loved it. After hearing him rave about it and dismiss the clutch issue I arranged for a ride and drive in one.
One ride and upon hearing the exhaust note was all it took and Ben found me a great deal at Pioneer where I met Chris Huck and had a FANTASTIC buyer experience when I picked up the car.
I have since my purchase given several rides to people in my CGT which has caused three other people to buy CGTs who were not going to otherwise buy one. This is a car whose reputation will grow by word of mouth very slowly.
In regard to value's it is a new car and will not escape the normal depreciation cycle for any new car absent perhaps an Enzo. However bear in mind that this Porsche unlike the 911 series car is a model unto itself and will eventually hold it's value in a more stable manner than a 911. The problem with the 911 series from a collector and value standpoint IMHO is that the driving experience and looks have never varied dramaticlly from generation to generation. This evolutionary design plan has led to the most reliable supercar ever built but not one that excites passion in people at a high end collector auction such as Pebble Beach or Barrett Jackson.
However one VERY positve note is that the people buying the CGT today know the value of their CGT is going to drop over the next few years. They know that when they buy it, but are STILL buying it anyway. I for an example knew the value's were going to continue to drop but wanted to be the original owner where I knew the paint was original and the car had never been abused. I also wanted the experience and memories of driving it off the showroom floor. In other words todays buyers of a CGT are in it for the long haul. Today's buyers are not speculators but are long term collectors or driving enthusiasts or both.
IMHO the significance of enthusiasts and not speculators buying the cars means their will be less available for sale. When you factor in that demand will slowly start to climb with word of mouth and the completion of the build run being made more public I believe prices will start to stabilize. I cite for precedent the muscle car market. Many of todays premuim cars sat unsold on dealer lots for years in the 1960s. Dealers couldn't give away their superbirds and Cobra's. Some muscle cars today sell for millions of dollars.
My theory is that todays CGT buyer who is an enthusiast or collector and who holds unto the car for many years will be rewarded. Another example are the Porsche 94 and 97 turbo S cars. The 94 turbo S in flachbau trim sold for over 150K new. Prices dropped to as low as 70K but now a nice example trades hands in days for 110K to 120K and that is over a period of 11 years. I realize that their were only 39 flachbau S cars made but they are only 380 HP and are simply a variation of the 964 model. Not a lot of difference from a standard 1994 964 turbo.
Another example is the 1997 turbo S which sold new for about 150K in 97 and could be bought for as low as 80K last year. Prices are firming somewhat for nice examples and are trading again for a nice low mile no story car around 120K. I have been offered 135K hard money for mine and won't sell because I know I can't easily find another as nice with a verifiable owner history. That price firming is over a period of 7 years on a car of which 176 were made.
More imortantly I have owned both a 97 turbo S and and standard 1997 turbo. I can't tell the difference from the extra 24 HP found on the S and the looks are not significanlty different IMHO. In other words it is the same model but with some tweeks. Unlike the CGT which is a one off type of car. Yet the 97 S market is firming up much faster than anyone predicted.
So Nick I think what killed the CGT market was bad press and flooding the USA with two years worth of cars in one model year. For those who think there are not enough high end buyers out there. Come to Barrett Jackson and watch the 250,000 people plus those bidding at home pay 700K for a 71 HEMI cuda or Pebble beach and watch the 200,000 people bid millions on those old cobras and duesys. The muscle car and classic vintage car market is on fire because of low supply and high demand from boomers like us in their peak earnings years.
I for one am not worried about my CGT value because this car is the all around finest car I have ever driven and it is not for sale. Therefore what it would bring at an auction is not important to me and every enthusiast and collector who bought one recently.
One ride and upon hearing the exhaust note was all it took and Ben found me a great deal at Pioneer where I met Chris Huck and had a FANTASTIC buyer experience when I picked up the car.
I have since my purchase given several rides to people in my CGT which has caused three other people to buy CGTs who were not going to otherwise buy one. This is a car whose reputation will grow by word of mouth very slowly.
In regard to value's it is a new car and will not escape the normal depreciation cycle for any new car absent perhaps an Enzo. However bear in mind that this Porsche unlike the 911 series car is a model unto itself and will eventually hold it's value in a more stable manner than a 911. The problem with the 911 series from a collector and value standpoint IMHO is that the driving experience and looks have never varied dramaticlly from generation to generation. This evolutionary design plan has led to the most reliable supercar ever built but not one that excites passion in people at a high end collector auction such as Pebble Beach or Barrett Jackson.
However one VERY positve note is that the people buying the CGT today know the value of their CGT is going to drop over the next few years. They know that when they buy it, but are STILL buying it anyway. I for an example knew the value's were going to continue to drop but wanted to be the original owner where I knew the paint was original and the car had never been abused. I also wanted the experience and memories of driving it off the showroom floor. In other words todays buyers of a CGT are in it for the long haul. Today's buyers are not speculators but are long term collectors or driving enthusiasts or both.
IMHO the significance of enthusiasts and not speculators buying the cars means their will be less available for sale. When you factor in that demand will slowly start to climb with word of mouth and the completion of the build run being made more public I believe prices will start to stabilize. I cite for precedent the muscle car market. Many of todays premuim cars sat unsold on dealer lots for years in the 1960s. Dealers couldn't give away their superbirds and Cobra's. Some muscle cars today sell for millions of dollars.
My theory is that todays CGT buyer who is an enthusiast or collector and who holds unto the car for many years will be rewarded. Another example are the Porsche 94 and 97 turbo S cars. The 94 turbo S in flachbau trim sold for over 150K new. Prices dropped to as low as 70K but now a nice example trades hands in days for 110K to 120K and that is over a period of 11 years. I realize that their were only 39 flachbau S cars made but they are only 380 HP and are simply a variation of the 964 model. Not a lot of difference from a standard 1994 964 turbo.
Another example is the 1997 turbo S which sold new for about 150K in 97 and could be bought for as low as 80K last year. Prices are firming somewhat for nice examples and are trading again for a nice low mile no story car around 120K. I have been offered 135K hard money for mine and won't sell because I know I can't easily find another as nice with a verifiable owner history. That price firming is over a period of 7 years on a car of which 176 were made.
More imortantly I have owned both a 97 turbo S and and standard 1997 turbo. I can't tell the difference from the extra 24 HP found on the S and the looks are not significanlty different IMHO. In other words it is the same model but with some tweeks. Unlike the CGT which is a one off type of car. Yet the 97 S market is firming up much faster than anyone predicted.
So Nick I think what killed the CGT market was bad press and flooding the USA with two years worth of cars in one model year. For those who think there are not enough high end buyers out there. Come to Barrett Jackson and watch the 250,000 people plus those bidding at home pay 700K for a 71 HEMI cuda or Pebble beach and watch the 200,000 people bid millions on those old cobras and duesys. The muscle car and classic vintage car market is on fire because of low supply and high demand from boomers like us in their peak earnings years.
I for one am not worried about my CGT value because this car is the all around finest car I have ever driven and it is not for sale. Therefore what it would bring at an auction is not important to me and every enthusiast and collector who bought one recently.
07-31-2005, 02:11 AM
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Les,
I am as much of a Porsche enthusiast as the next guy and I see it differently.
The CGT (at $448K) is a money loser, now and into the future. The GT2 and GT3 are relatively rarer (approximately 250 and 1000 respectively), at a much more reasonable price point , and according to your theory should reward the "buy and hold strategy" over the long run..that's what's in my garage. See what's happening to those prices..they have a chance of recovering because of the relatively low price.
At $350K the CGT is probably a buy and hold (you won't lose more than $100K). Remember Porsche originally priced it at $375K with 500 for the NA market. The $ fluctuation arguments, for the price increase,were pure B/S (and greed) since these issues were hedged by Porsche.
I've been to Leipzig and have experienced the car(wonderful!)..it's a marketing screw-up by Porsche and the Dealers...that's why I got my deposit back and walked (and I was a very big fan..but you can't argue economics).
Some only bought the car because they were locked into the deposit (victims of dealer speculation), and it would have been cheaper to most to walk away and take the $50K loss. However, it's buyers and sellers that make a market. But let's call a spade a spade!
I am as much of a Porsche enthusiast as the next guy and I see it differently.
The CGT (at $448K) is a money loser, now and into the future. The GT2 and GT3 are relatively rarer (approximately 250 and 1000 respectively), at a much more reasonable price point , and according to your theory should reward the "buy and hold strategy" over the long run..that's what's in my garage. See what's happening to those prices..they have a chance of recovering because of the relatively low price.
At $350K the CGT is probably a buy and hold (you won't lose more than $100K). Remember Porsche originally priced it at $375K with 500 for the NA market. The $ fluctuation arguments, for the price increase,were pure B/S (and greed) since these issues were hedged by Porsche.
I've been to Leipzig and have experienced the car(wonderful!)..it's a marketing screw-up by Porsche and the Dealers...that's why I got my deposit back and walked (and I was a very big fan..but you can't argue economics).
Some only bought the car because they were locked into the deposit (victims of dealer speculation), and it would have been cheaper to most to walk away and take the $50K loss. However, it's buyers and sellers that make a market. But let's call a spade a spade!
07-31-2005, 02:46 AM
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GT 2s for NA was 184 for 2002
90 for 2003
24 for 2004
5 for 2005
Not counting a few possible 2001s that may have been delivered to NA. I think that's a total of 303? The GT2 is essentially an option for the standard turbo or a variation of the X50 package. The CGT has no other car like it in the Porsche line up. In fact no other car in it's league has a radio, removeable roof and build quality. A recent test indicated it outbraked the Enzo as well as went trhough the slalom more quickly. Enthusiasts who are buying the CGT today apperciate the fine art of driving and apperciate this car as the worlds finest all around supercar ever built.
The NA CGT build out will be about 625 or less as compared to the generic 303 GT2s that don't differ all that much more than a 996 X 50 package in terms of driving pleasure.
I wonder how much time Colm you have had the pleasure of spending behind the wheel of a CGT?
For an enthusiast buying a CGT right now is purely an emotional decision as opposed to an economic one. Similiar to falling in love with your wife. I am quite sure I could have found a more econmically sensible person to marry, but I wouldn't have been in love with her.
LOL
90 for 2003
24 for 2004
5 for 2005
Not counting a few possible 2001s that may have been delivered to NA. I think that's a total of 303? The GT2 is essentially an option for the standard turbo or a variation of the X50 package. The CGT has no other car like it in the Porsche line up. In fact no other car in it's league has a radio, removeable roof and build quality. A recent test indicated it outbraked the Enzo as well as went trhough the slalom more quickly. Enthusiasts who are buying the CGT today apperciate the fine art of driving and apperciate this car as the worlds finest all around supercar ever built.
The NA CGT build out will be about 625 or less as compared to the generic 303 GT2s that don't differ all that much more than a 996 X 50 package in terms of driving pleasure.
I wonder how much time Colm you have had the pleasure of spending behind the wheel of a CGT?
For an enthusiast buying a CGT right now is purely an emotional decision as opposed to an economic one. Similiar to falling in love with your wife. I am quite sure I could have found a more econmically sensible person to marry, but I wouldn't have been in love with her.
LOL
07-31-2005, 03:46 AM
#14
Colm, I think if you owned a Carrera GT like Les you wouldn't care about the resale value because selling it would be the last thing on your mind. I know I wouldn't be thinking when I drove it around- Gee, i'm losing alot of money driving this....
Fact is, cars should never be bought purely as an investment (might be a few exceptions)...how many cars can you promise will appreciate at a higher rate then you can get in the stock market? I can't think of 1......
The only time I can see the residual value coming into play when choosing a vehicle would be if you're torn between 2 similiar models like a camry and an accord and you decide to go with the model that has a better residual as a deciding factor. With the Carrera GT there is no competition- what competes with it? It is an unrivaled Supercar at it's pricepoint and perhaps accross all pricepoints.....
Colm, can you think of a competitive vehicle to the CGT that would have less depreciation?
Now worrying that a car was overproduced, and therefore may take away some of it's prestige- that to me seems like a real concern....
Fact is, cars should never be bought purely as an investment (might be a few exceptions)...how many cars can you promise will appreciate at a higher rate then you can get in the stock market? I can't think of 1......
The only time I can see the residual value coming into play when choosing a vehicle would be if you're torn between 2 similiar models like a camry and an accord and you decide to go with the model that has a better residual as a deciding factor. With the Carrera GT there is no competition- what competes with it? It is an unrivaled Supercar at it's pricepoint and perhaps accross all pricepoints.....
Colm, can you think of a competitive vehicle to the CGT that would have less depreciation?
Now worrying that a car was overproduced, and therefore may take away some of it's prestige- that to me seems like a real concern....
07-31-2005, 05:04 AM
#15
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by destaccado
Colm, I think if you owned a Carrera GT like Les you wouldn't care about the resale value because selling it would be the last thing on your mind
i'm not in it for money. plus i don't see any other car i'd want instead of the next super car era comes therefore resale value is pointless to me now. let's be realistic here, regardless the price tag or resale value, which car would u want to have in ur garage? i take the fact that we're all Porsche fans here...
maybe the hottest thing on the market now is the Ferrari F430. they get all the money & i mean stupid mark-up money! but hey, beside the hype it's just another entre-lever Ferrari 360 replacment. that's the thing i don't get...