918 Test Drive at The Thermal Club near Palm Springs, California on Nov. 21st, 2013
12-09-2013, 05:08 AM
#31
Burning Brakes
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I think for sure we will see some of these extreme weight reduction 'items' in the upcoming 960 mid-engined model. I have this feeling that Porsche is looking past the 991 gt3 and soon-to-be-released gt3 RS...and are beginning to concentrate their efforts & technical expertise on this upcoming 960 model!
I say that because we have heard that the 991 gt3 might be limited to the just-released version (in other words, no .2 991 gt3 in the future!) and that the MY2015 .1 991 RS might be also it! Notice that a version of the electric 'Rear Axle Steering' developed for the 918 was brought into the 991 gt3 after it proved successful in the 918 prototypes. This was a late addition to the gt3 model and it has been somewhat controversial (it adds weight & complexity). Even Andreas Preuninger was initially skeptical but changed his mind at the last minute. Fine and well. But I don't think Porsche can afford to put many of the 918's extreme weight savings parts (like those you suggested) on any of their 991's, including their 991 gt3. The latter has a base price of US$130,400. For example, the magnesium wheels of the 918 Weissach Package are available to the standard 918 Spyder buyer for nearly $32,500 extra cost! That would constitute an expense that represents 25% of the gt3's base price. So these lighter weight magnesium wheels would not be a practical or affordable offering in a 991, in my opinion.
However, the upcoming 960 will be the model that profits the most from EVERYTHING that Weissach has learned in developing the 918 for its limited production, including all of its innovative light weight components. Chris Harris talked about this in his first 918 test drive at Leipzig back in March of 2013!
Driving the 887hp Porsche 918 Spyder - /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube
This 960 model is logically where Porsche will place the MOST effort now in order to create the 'next best' enthusiast model for track use by their customers! Some here at this forum have rightfully suggested that the 960 will not be given much publicity by Porsche until it produces & sells every 918 it plans to build! True enough. And neither would you if you had to find 918 buyers for this very expensive model (which they are confident they will have soon). But note that Porsche expects ALL of its 918 vehicles to be built in calendar year 2014. By early 2015, the 918 production will be done, all cars delivered and its sales recorded/booked.
So the possibility of publicly discussing more about the 960, which will be a standout that will be closer in performance to a 918 than to a 991 gt3 RS at a fraction of the 918's price, is only slightly over one year away! Let's be patient. We are almost there. In my opinion, the 918 is a break-even or perhaps even a loss-leader for Porsche! But they will make the profits on the 960! The current 918 will pay for the bulk of the 960's development costs and, unlike the former or the Carrera GT, it will not be a limited production vehicle! They will sell more 960's than the current gt3 RS's. It is new & light weight. It is mid-engine. It will be powerful. It will be AWD. It is the FeFi. It is supposed to be the 'Slayer of Italian Dragons' at tracks all over the world, including the Circuit de la Sarthe at LeMans! It is the ''Great White Hope' from Zuffenhausen. It's supposed to be priced at around $250K. And I want one.
So the 911 gt3 era is about to end...and the 960's is about to begin! But while it's still here with us, we say 'long live' to the reigning gt3 king!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
PS Chris Harris is currently in Valencia, Spain test driving the production version of the 918 Spyder at Circuit Ricardo Tormo in nearby Cheste. I look forward to seeing what his most recent take on the 918 will be! We will know shortly!
I say that because we have heard that the 991 gt3 might be limited to the just-released version (in other words, no .2 991 gt3 in the future!) and that the MY2015 .1 991 RS might be also it! Notice that a version of the electric 'Rear Axle Steering' developed for the 918 was brought into the 991 gt3 after it proved successful in the 918 prototypes. This was a late addition to the gt3 model and it has been somewhat controversial (it adds weight & complexity). Even Andreas Preuninger was initially skeptical but changed his mind at the last minute. Fine and well. But I don't think Porsche can afford to put many of the 918's extreme weight savings parts (like those you suggested) on any of their 991's, including their 991 gt3. The latter has a base price of US$130,400. For example, the magnesium wheels of the 918 Weissach Package are available to the standard 918 Spyder buyer for nearly $32,500 extra cost! That would constitute an expense that represents 25% of the gt3's base price. So these lighter weight magnesium wheels would not be a practical or affordable offering in a 991, in my opinion.
However, the upcoming 960 will be the model that profits the most from EVERYTHING that Weissach has learned in developing the 918 for its limited production, including all of its innovative light weight components. Chris Harris talked about this in his first 918 test drive at Leipzig back in March of 2013!
Driving the 887hp Porsche 918 Spyder - /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube
This 960 model is logically where Porsche will place the MOST effort now in order to create the 'next best' enthusiast model for track use by their customers! Some here at this forum have rightfully suggested that the 960 will not be given much publicity by Porsche until it produces & sells every 918 it plans to build! True enough. And neither would you if you had to find 918 buyers for this very expensive model (which they are confident they will have soon). But note that Porsche expects ALL of its 918 vehicles to be built in calendar year 2014. By early 2015, the 918 production will be done, all cars delivered and its sales recorded/booked.
So the possibility of publicly discussing more about the 960, which will be a standout that will be closer in performance to a 918 than to a 991 gt3 RS at a fraction of the 918's price, is only slightly over one year away! Let's be patient. We are almost there. In my opinion, the 918 is a break-even or perhaps even a loss-leader for Porsche! But they will make the profits on the 960! The current 918 will pay for the bulk of the 960's development costs and, unlike the former or the Carrera GT, it will not be a limited production vehicle! They will sell more 960's than the current gt3 RS's. It is new & light weight. It is mid-engine. It will be powerful. It will be AWD. It is the FeFi. It is supposed to be the 'Slayer of Italian Dragons' at tracks all over the world, including the Circuit de la Sarthe at LeMans! It is the ''Great White Hope' from Zuffenhausen. It's supposed to be priced at around $250K. And I want one.
So the 911 gt3 era is about to end...and the 960's is about to begin! But while it's still here with us, we say 'long live' to the reigning gt3 king!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
PS Chris Harris is currently in Valencia, Spain test driving the production version of the 918 Spyder at Circuit Ricardo Tormo in nearby Cheste. I look forward to seeing what his most recent take on the 918 will be! We will know shortly!
all this makes sense what you write..and Im hearing the same.."end of GT3 coming"..as much as I wish also to see a 960, Im still not sure that we will see this car. What if Porsche drops the GT3 and its racing participation, to focus only on LMP1 in Le Mans..but I agree that this cant be done for a long time either..if by 2015 the 918 is "dead"...why to continue racing with it for another 5 years..OK..if it wins why not
960: 4wd...I wish more for 2 wheel ..besides, in the GT class I think 4wd is forbidden...so for racing it will have to be a 2wd. Otherwise, this car has to be as simple and light as possible.. I dont want this RWS, hybrid bs stuff. If it will be 918, just cheaper (cheaper batteries etc) then I dont want it. Im sure the chassis will be the best in its class..but a car is more then just a carbon monocoque..the rest has to fit as well !
12-09-2013, 07:56 AM
#32
By early 2015, the 918 production will be done, all cars delivered and its sales recorded/booked
960: 4wd...I wish more for 2 wheel ..besides, in the GT class I think 4wd is forbidden...so for racing it will have to be a 2wd. Otherwise, this car has to be as simple and light as possible.. I dont want this RWS, hybrid bs stuff.
See the GT3/Cup racing in single marque sprint racing only - once the 960 is produced.
12-09-2013, 06:21 PM
#33
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Food for thought!
Eduardo,
all this makes sense what you write..and Im hearing the same.."end of GT3 coming"..as much as I wish also to see a 960, Im still not sure that we will see this car. What if Porsche drops the GT3 and its racing participation, to focus only on LMP1 in Le Mans..but I agree that this cant be done for a long time either..if by 2015 the 918 is "dead"...why to continue racing with it for another 5 years..OK..if it wins why not
960: 4wd...I wish more for 2 wheel ..besides, in the GT class I think 4wd is forbidden...so for racing it will have to be a 2wd. Otherwise, this car has to be as simple and light as possible.. I dont want this RWS, hybrid bs stuff. If it will be 918, just cheaper (cheaper batteries etc) then I dont want it. Im sure the chassis will be the best in its class..but a car is more then just a carbon monocoque..the rest has to fit as well !
all this makes sense what you write..and Im hearing the same.."end of GT3 coming"..as much as I wish also to see a 960, Im still not sure that we will see this car. What if Porsche drops the GT3 and its racing participation, to focus only on LMP1 in Le Mans..but I agree that this cant be done for a long time either..if by 2015 the 918 is "dead"...why to continue racing with it for another 5 years..OK..if it wins why not
960: 4wd...I wish more for 2 wheel ..besides, in the GT class I think 4wd is forbidden...so for racing it will have to be a 2wd. Otherwise, this car has to be as simple and light as possible.. I dont want this RWS, hybrid bs stuff. If it will be 918, just cheaper (cheaper batteries etc) then I dont want it. Im sure the chassis will be the best in its class..but a car is more then just a carbon monocoque..the rest has to fit as well !
a) First, let's see what the joint AC0/FIA 'GT' combined technical & regulatory banner will be starting in 2015.
https://sportscargeek.wordpress.com/tag/2015/
b) AWD: Audi R8 LMS Ultra has been modified to 2wd for gt3 duties and works well at professional track events. In recent years we have seen a gradual trend by European manufacturers to change to AWD on their most powerful 'production' offerings. Audi offered AWD with the R8 from its inception. Porsche, of course, limits their 911 Turbos (since the 993 with the exception of the gt2) to AWD worldwide. But now MB's AMG is restricting its passenger car offerings in the US (e.g. E63) to a sporting version of their 4Matics, although it will allow similar ROW AMG models to be offered in rear wheel drive!
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st-ride-review
I have also read that the last redoubt of performance RWD, BMW's M division, will offer AWD by 2017!
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/a-...l-wheel-drive/
In my opinion, the push for AWD in performance offerings by the German sport car manufacturers has accelerated (perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not) since the the 2005 Carrera GT deadly accident at Fontana and subsequent lawsuits. The recent Rodas/Walker tragedy will only accelerate these defensive corporate strategies. The idea is take all the 'nannies' that are technically possible today - Traction Control, Electronic Stability Control (which combines into what Porsche calls 'PMS'), Torque Vectoring, plus the enhanced traction of AWD -and incorporate them into their highest performance vehicles in order to offer a 'safer' environment for their 'average' drivers. It also allows auto manufacturers more leeway to increase horsepower & torque into these high performance production vehicles and give them some legal protection from our unpredictable tort law environment. It might not make for the best handling at the limit on the track or the lightest offering due to the extra weight of AWD, but that is the price they are willing to pay to navigate in dangerous litigations waters, especially here in the United States! Note that Mercedes will continue to offer RWD on its ROW AMG passenger cars. But not on those destined for the US market. And BMW's M division might offer a similar strategy. That is why it's not surprising to me to hear that the 960 will be AWD in production for the 'street' version, although it might be modified for RWD in competitive racing!
c) Where have you heard that the 918 Spyder will be raced by Porsche or any privateer? I have not read of that. Note that Porsche R&D boss Wolfgang Hatz recently announced that the 918 Spyder will not be offered in a 'Clubsport' or 'RS' model, nor with a non-Hybrid 'conventional' engine (e.g. its 4.6 v8 only)!
d) 960 Hybrid? I don't expect we will see a Hybrid version of the 960 at first. No batteries, not electric motors, etc. None of that added weight...although also not the added hp & torque boost that technology provides the 918! But I am OK with that!
e)RWS or Rear Axle Steering? I have seen reports it will get 'Rear Axle Steering'. Let's see what the 2015 combined AC0/FIA GT rules will be. We have also heard that the MY2015 991 gt3 RS will not come with 'Rear Axle Steering', which is standard on the base 991 gt3! We will see. I think Porsche is pretty excited about this 'new' technology. It would not surprise me to see it incorporated into the standard 991 model starting with the .2 mid-model revision coming up shortly!
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...rrari_fighter/
Saludos,
Eduardo
12-09-2013, 06:47 PM
#34
The ACO regulations make for some very interesting technology challenges and should make for more interesting racing. Unlike F1 where everyone races basically the same engine, with the ACO regulations, each manufacturer can try to compete with different solutions/strategies to the regulations. No need for DRF!
12-10-2013, 12:38 AM
#35
F1 engines are very different from each other, just as the cars are very different from each other. The problem is it takes quite an expert eye to tell them apart. The differences are small but engineering-wise quite significant.
Racecar Engineering (magazine) just did a short story related to the vaster than you'd think differences between F1 engines.
Racecar Engineering (magazine) just did a short story related to the vaster than you'd think differences between F1 engines.
12-10-2013, 07:41 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
I think for sure we will see some of these extreme weight reduction 'items' in the upcoming 960 mid-engined model. I have this feeling that Porsche is looking past the 991 gt3 and soon-to-be-released gt3 RS...and are beginning to concentrate their efforts & technical expertise on this upcoming 960 model!
I say that because we have heard that the 991 gt3 might be limited to the just-released version (in other words, no .2 991 gt3 in the future!) and that the MY2015 .1 991 RS might be also it! Notice that a version of the electric 'Rear Axle Steering' developed for the 918 was brought into the 991 gt3 after it proved successful in the 918 prototypes. This was a late addition to the gt3 model and it has been somewhat controversial (it adds weight & complexity). Even Andreas Preuninger was initially skeptical but changed his mind at the last minute. Fine and well. But I don't think Porsche can afford to put many of the 918's extreme weight savings parts (like those you suggested) on any of their 991's, including their 991 gt3. The latter has a base price of US$130,400. For example, the magnesium wheels of the 918 Weissach Package are available to the standard 918 Spyder buyer for nearly $32,500 extra cost! That would constitute an expense that represents 25% of the gt3's base price. So these lighter weight magnesium wheels would not be a practical or affordable offering in a 991, in my opinion.
However, the upcoming 960 will be the model that profits the most from EVERYTHING that Weissach has learned in developing the 918 for its limited production, including all of its innovative light weight components. Chris Harris talked about this in his first 918 test drive at Leipzig back in March of 2013!
This 960 model is logically where Porsche will place the MOST effort now in order to create the 'next best' enthusiast model for track use by their customers! Some here at this forum have rightfully suggested that the 960 will not be given much publicity by Porsche until it produces & sells every 918 it plans to build! True enough. And neither would you if you had to find 918 buyers for this very expensive model (which they are confident they will have soon). But note that Porsche expects ALL of its 918 vehicles to be built in calendar year 2014. By early 2015, the 918 production will be done, all cars delivered and its sales recorded/booked.
So the possibility of publicly discussing more about the 960, which will be a standout that will be closer in performance to a 918 than to a 991 gt3 RS at a fraction of the 918's price, is only slightly over one year away! Let's be patient. We are almost there. In my opinion, the 918 is a break-even or perhaps even a loss-leader for Porsche! But they will make the profits on the 960! The current 918 will pay for the bulk of the 960's development costs and, unlike the former or the Carrera GT, it will not be a limited production vehicle! They will sell more 960's than the current gt3 RS's. It is new & light weight. It is mid-engine. It will be powerful. It will be AWD. It is the FeFi. It is supposed to be the 'Slayer of Italian Dragons' at tracks all over the world, including the Circuit de la Sarthe at LeMans! It is the ''Great White Hope' from Zuffenhausen. It's supposed to be priced at around $250K. And I want one.
So the 911 gt3 era is about to end...and the 960's is about to begin! But while it's still here with us, we say 'long live' to the reigning gt3 king!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
PS Chris Harris is currently in Valencia, Spain test driving the production version of the 918 Spyder at Circuit Ricardo Tormo in nearby Cheste. I look forward to seeing what his most recent take on the 918 will be! We will know shortly!
I say that because we have heard that the 991 gt3 might be limited to the just-released version (in other words, no .2 991 gt3 in the future!) and that the MY2015 .1 991 RS might be also it! Notice that a version of the electric 'Rear Axle Steering' developed for the 918 was brought into the 991 gt3 after it proved successful in the 918 prototypes. This was a late addition to the gt3 model and it has been somewhat controversial (it adds weight & complexity). Even Andreas Preuninger was initially skeptical but changed his mind at the last minute. Fine and well. But I don't think Porsche can afford to put many of the 918's extreme weight savings parts (like those you suggested) on any of their 991's, including their 991 gt3. The latter has a base price of US$130,400. For example, the magnesium wheels of the 918 Weissach Package are available to the standard 918 Spyder buyer for nearly $32,500 extra cost! That would constitute an expense that represents 25% of the gt3's base price. So these lighter weight magnesium wheels would not be a practical or affordable offering in a 991, in my opinion.
However, the upcoming 960 will be the model that profits the most from EVERYTHING that Weissach has learned in developing the 918 for its limited production, including all of its innovative light weight components. Chris Harris talked about this in his first 918 test drive at Leipzig back in March of 2013!
This 960 model is logically where Porsche will place the MOST effort now in order to create the 'next best' enthusiast model for track use by their customers! Some here at this forum have rightfully suggested that the 960 will not be given much publicity by Porsche until it produces & sells every 918 it plans to build! True enough. And neither would you if you had to find 918 buyers for this very expensive model (which they are confident they will have soon). But note that Porsche expects ALL of its 918 vehicles to be built in calendar year 2014. By early 2015, the 918 production will be done, all cars delivered and its sales recorded/booked.
So the possibility of publicly discussing more about the 960, which will be a standout that will be closer in performance to a 918 than to a 991 gt3 RS at a fraction of the 918's price, is only slightly over one year away! Let's be patient. We are almost there. In my opinion, the 918 is a break-even or perhaps even a loss-leader for Porsche! But they will make the profits on the 960! The current 918 will pay for the bulk of the 960's development costs and, unlike the former or the Carrera GT, it will not be a limited production vehicle! They will sell more 960's than the current gt3 RS's. It is new & light weight. It is mid-engine. It will be powerful. It will be AWD. It is the FeFi. It is supposed to be the 'Slayer of Italian Dragons' at tracks all over the world, including the Circuit de la Sarthe at LeMans! It is the ''Great White Hope' from Zuffenhausen. It's supposed to be priced at around $250K. And I want one.
So the 911 gt3 era is about to end...and the 960's is about to begin! But while it's still here with us, we say 'long live' to the reigning gt3 king!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
PS Chris Harris is currently in Valencia, Spain test driving the production version of the 918 Spyder at Circuit Ricardo Tormo in nearby Cheste. I look forward to seeing what his most recent take on the 918 will be! We will know shortly!
I enjoy your enthusiasm for the 960 as well! Looks like I’ll need to save a little harder.
I think this subject is worthy of further exploration on this forum:
b) AWD: Audi R8 LMS Ultra has been modified to 2wd for gt3 duties and works well at professional track events. In recent years we have seen a gradual trend by European manufacturers to change to AWD on their most powerful 'production' offerings. Audi offered AWD with the R8 from its inception. Porsche, of course, limits their 911 Turbos (since the 993 with the exception of the gt2) to AWD worldwide. But now MB's AMG is restricting its passenger car offerings in the US (e.g. E63) to a sporting version of their 4Matics, although it will allow similar ROW AMG models to be offered in rear wheel drive!
In my opinion, the push for AWD in performance offerings by the German sport car manufacturers has accelerated (perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not) since the the 2005 Carrera GT deadly accident at Fontana and subsequent lawsuits. The recent Rodas/Walker tragedy will only accelerate these defensive corporate strategies. The idea is take all the 'nannies' that are technically possible today - Traction Control, Electronic Stability Control (which combines into what Porsche calls 'PMS'), Torque Vectoring, plus the enhanced traction of AWD -and incorporate them into their highest performance vehicles in order to offer a 'safer' environment for their 'average' drivers. It also allows auto manufacturers more leeway to increase horsepower & torque into these high performance production vehicles and give them some legal protection from our unpredictable tort law environment. It might not make for the best handling at the limit on the track or the lightest offering due to the extra weight of AWD, but that is the price they are willing to pay to navigate in dangerous litigations waters, especially here in the United States! Note that Mercedes will continue to offer RWD on its ROW AMG passenger cars. But not on those destined for the US market. And BMW's M division might offer a similar strategy. That is why it's not surprising to me to hear that the 960 will be AWD in production for the 'street' version, although it might be modified for RWD in competitive racing!
A turbo? Yes. It might end up with 4 turbos! Perhaps a 3.9-liter, quad-turbo flat-eight engine with 650 horsepower...according to some reports!
Saludos,
Eduardo
b) AWD: Audi R8 LMS Ultra has been modified to 2wd for gt3 duties and works well at professional track events. In recent years we have seen a gradual trend by European manufacturers to change to AWD on their most powerful 'production' offerings. Audi offered AWD with the R8 from its inception. Porsche, of course, limits their 911 Turbos (since the 993 with the exception of the gt2) to AWD worldwide. But now MB's AMG is restricting its passenger car offerings in the US (e.g. E63) to a sporting version of their 4Matics, although it will allow similar ROW AMG models to be offered in rear wheel drive!
In my opinion, the push for AWD in performance offerings by the German sport car manufacturers has accelerated (perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not) since the the 2005 Carrera GT deadly accident at Fontana and subsequent lawsuits. The recent Rodas/Walker tragedy will only accelerate these defensive corporate strategies. The idea is take all the 'nannies' that are technically possible today - Traction Control, Electronic Stability Control (which combines into what Porsche calls 'PMS'), Torque Vectoring, plus the enhanced traction of AWD -and incorporate them into their highest performance vehicles in order to offer a 'safer' environment for their 'average' drivers. It also allows auto manufacturers more leeway to increase horsepower & torque into these high performance production vehicles and give them some legal protection from our unpredictable tort law environment. It might not make for the best handling at the limit on the track or the lightest offering due to the extra weight of AWD, but that is the price they are willing to pay to navigate in dangerous litigations waters, especially here in the United States! Note that Mercedes will continue to offer RWD on its ROW AMG passenger cars. But not on those destined for the US market. And BMW's M division might offer a similar strategy. That is why it's not surprising to me to hear that the 960 will be AWD in production for the 'street' version, although it might be modified for RWD in competitive racing!
A turbo? Yes. It might end up with 4 turbos! Perhaps a 3.9-liter, quad-turbo flat-eight engine with 650 horsepower...according to some reports!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Years ago when I posted more frequently on 6Speed & Teamspeed, I used to throw engine ideas out there exactly like the engine described above. Hmm…where’s my check? Then again, it was pertaining to a flat-8 in the 911.
Porsche has another concept out there, the 984. It is a 4-door sedan version of the 918. Last article I saw on it was in Car Magazine (UK) pages 14 & 15 I believe. It has an ‘uprated’ 700hp version of the 918’s 4.6 V8 and uses an extended version of the 918’s chassis.
The 4.6 V8 in the 918 is a pretty special bit of kit: reverse-flow, no accessory drives, 9,150rpm limit. I think I would rather see a wild normally-aspirated V8 in the 960. I love the torque a turbocharged engine can produce, but I often have wondered how far a N/A street engine can be taken, reliably of course. The McLaren P1 is probably at the top of my ‘wish’ list at the moment, but I often wonder how much more special it would have been with a N/A V8, a bump in displacement and the same power output. Think of a GT3 with 900+hp and 1320 lbs of downforce.
I’m sure someone will now begin talking about future CO2 regs, and an engine like that isn’t in the cards. Then we come full circle. What is the future of the GT3? Are we soon to witness the end of the N/A engine? Will the next gen GT3 be a turbo, a hybrid or both? One has to wonder.
12-18-2013, 01:56 AM
#37
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Evo's Richard Meaden drives 918 Weissach at Valencia, Spain!
Evo's Richard Meaden gets to drive the final version of the new 918 Spyder on track. Here's what he thought of Porsche's hypercar.
Porsche 918 Spyder review: http://bit.ly/18CmiNq
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
12-18-2013, 02:11 AM
#38
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
AutoMoto TV videos on 918 at Valencia, Spain
Dr. Frank Walliser interview with AutoMoto TV during Valencia 918 Test Drives.
918 Spyder Weissach Package Design Review Video - AutoMoto TV
918 Spyder Base Design Review Video - AutoMoto TV
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
918 Spyder Weissach Package Design Review Video - AutoMoto TV
918 Spyder Base Design Review Video - AutoMoto TV
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
12-18-2013, 02:36 AM
#39
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Autocar's Steve Sutcliffe drives 918 Spyder base at Valencia, Spain!
Autocar's Steve Sutcliffe puts Porsche's Bugatti Veyron-beater to the test.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
12-18-2013, 07:51 PM
#41
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Chris Harris Full Report on the 918 Spyder base at Valencia, Spain!
Chris Harris awaited report on the 918 Spyder at the Circuit Ricardo Tormo in Cheste (Province of Valencia).
Eduardo
Carmel
Eduardo
Carmel
12-20-2013, 01:04 AM
#43
Racer
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I don't think anyone else has answered your question on why the passenger seat power option isn't yet available on the U.S. cars.
I would speculate that the reason has to do with the weight sensor for the front passenger airbag. This became law in 2006 and was the reason that the CGT was only delivered to the U.S. in '04 and '05 so they didn't have to add this sensor. I would imagine that the sensor that is used on the stock seat would have to be re-calibrated to work with the passenger seat. This sensor is used so that it will not or partially deploy the airbag on the passenger side if the person is not of a certain weight.
This is only speculation perhaps your friend that designed the seat can give you a concrete answer.
I would speculate that the reason has to do with the weight sensor for the front passenger airbag. This became law in 2006 and was the reason that the CGT was only delivered to the U.S. in '04 and '05 so they didn't have to add this sensor. I would imagine that the sensor that is used on the stock seat would have to be re-calibrated to work with the passenger seat. This sensor is used so that it will not or partially deploy the airbag on the passenger side if the person is not of a certain weight.
This is only speculation perhaps your friend that designed the seat can give you a concrete answer.
12-20-2013, 03:21 AM
#44
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
RE: Why electrically adjustable (up & down) Passenger Side 918 Sport Bucket Seat not
I don't think anyone else has answered your question on why the passenger seat power option isn't yet available on the U.S. cars.
I would speculate that the reason has to do with the weight sensor for the front passenger airbag. This became law in 2006 and was the reason that the CGT was only delivered to the U.S. in '04 and '05 so they didn't have to add this sensor. I would imagine that the sensor that is used on the stock seat would have to be re-calibrated to work with the passenger seat. This sensor is used so that it will not or partially deploy the airbag on the passenger side if the person is not of a certain weight.
This is only speculation perhaps your friend that designed the seat can give you a concrete answer.
I would speculate that the reason has to do with the weight sensor for the front passenger airbag. This became law in 2006 and was the reason that the CGT was only delivered to the U.S. in '04 and '05 so they didn't have to add this sensor. I would imagine that the sensor that is used on the stock seat would have to be re-calibrated to work with the passenger seat. This sensor is used so that it will not or partially deploy the airbag on the passenger side if the person is not of a certain weight.
This is only speculation perhaps your friend that designed the seat can give you a concrete answer.
My friend Doug, who is having his 918 built next month and was very interested in having an electrically adjustable passenger seat on his 918, was very clear as to why this option is not yet offered in the US. I communicated that in post #23 of this thread. Here is what I wrote:"(Doug) has been told by Porsche that the reason is related to an air bag issue. For some reason, it doesn't yet meet US safety regulations."
My own speculation on the subject, which I shared with others on that post, is worth perhaps repeating here:
"The drivers side sport bucket seat moves up & down. It has an incorporated side air bag to protect the 'thorax' part of the body. The left door has an airbag for the protection of the head. Finally, there is a frontal airbag on the hub part of the steering wheel. What is the difference on the passenger side that would prevent Porsche from offering an adjustable height seat on that location? The seat's thorax air bag moves up & down with the seat, so that should not be the problem. The door mounted airbag covers the head on side impacts. There should be no issues there - that system works fine with the driver's height adjustable seat. So it must be the frontal dash/mounted air bag. Something about the air bag location and projected coverage area in relationship with a seat that is not stationary, but that it can move up & down a few inches." I am sure PCNA and their lawyers are trying desperately to get this optional adjustable passenger bucket seat on the 918 approved by the US authorities. Not having such adjustment on the 'wife's' designated seat might jeopardize some sales of the 918 in the US.
Porsche, in the past, tried to address quickly issues that have prevented them from offering 'sport bucket seats' here in the US which were otherwise available to ROW. When the .1 997 gt3 & RS were introduced in MY2007, the European sport bucket seats (fixed & similar to the Carrera GT seats) offered on those cars were not approved for the US market. Adding a weight sensor would have been an easy fix. But that was not the main problem. The biggest drawback was lack of the now required side air bags (for Thorax area) on vehicles sold in the US. Porsche was able to solve that problem with the introduction of the sport bucket seats standard in the US MY2008 gt2, but it came too late for the .1 997 gt3 or RS in the US. They never got them. These folding sport buckets w. airbags were next made available in the US as options on the .2 997 from MY2009 on, the .2 gt3 & RS in MY2010/2011, the Boxster Spyder in MY2011/2012 and the Cayman R in MY2012. Please note that these EXACT sport bucket seats (folding gt2-type w. airbags) are still being offered by Porsche in ROW for all 991's & 981's (see attached photo). Indeed some of the MY2014 991 gt3's delivered in Europe last week came with them as standard equipment (e.g. Macca's). It is expected that a new 'sport bucket seat', perhaps resembling in design those created for the 918's, will be introduced with the MY2015 991 gt3 RS when it debuts next year ('14). We don't yet know if the ones designed for the 991 will be folding or fixed. And we don't yet know if, in the US, the passenger side bucket seats will be electrically adjustable up & down. For sure, they will offer this feature in ROW.
Thorsten Klein, who designed the 918 seats and is probably involved in the new 991/981 sport buckets, is not yet allowed to talk about any of this in public. I have asked him and he has declined to comment. Hopefully, we will know more this subject as 918 production starts and US customers keep asking for this option which is otherwise available in ROW. And we will have to wait until the gt3 RS is introduced before we know the exact technical makeup of those new buckets!
Saludos,
Eduardo