beden1

Is there a link where I can read about this?

wtdoom

Sorry I was told this at the factory . I am sure it was repeated to press so I would expect it to be in the original car reviews ( think its in the glossy Cgt book too) and I'm sure you can find it on line matey .

W8MM

OK, I'm a Carrera GT owner with dozens of track events @ Putnam Park and Mid-Ohio in this car. I have many thousands of laps of experience at Mid-Ohio in Porsches and BMWs of all sorts. I completely understand the "difficult to master" reputation the CGT gets. I've spun it at both tracks with (fortunately) no ill effects. I made two changes to the as-delivered setup that calmed it way down for me.

1) I moved the rear anti-roll bar setting from "medium" to "soft" by changing the drop link position from the middle hole of the 3 available to the hole at the tip of the rear bar. This reduced the tendency to oversteer in my hands by a significant amount. By exactly how much? I was able to improve my track times by 4 to 5 seconds per lap with only this adjustment, nothing else.

In my non-expert opinion, the CGT seems to have been "optimized" for track quickness in the hands of drivers who don't mind running pretty high rear slip angles. If one observes typical side-force vs. slip-angle curves for modern tires, running a significant rear slip angle might help eek out a higher side force while right at the edge. For a driver used to the rear slip angle, it could be faster. For drivers used to driving 911s, that much greasy feeling at the rear starts alarm bells ringing and is not well tolerated. I didn't much like it. Maybe I'm a wus, but it's my experience in spirited driving that a touch of basic understeer leaves some "design margin" for use by the driver if something unexpected occurs.

I have no idea for what use the "tight" position of the rear bar was created. Drifting competitions?

2) I changed from the OEM Pilot Sport tires to Michelin Super Sports as soon as they were available in the USA. The OEM tires were quite temperature sensitive as street tires go. If they were not "up to temperature", they didn't have prodigious grip. After a few warm up laps at the track, they were pretty sticky when new. Driving to and from the track, they could be quite "interesting" if driven on cold roads.

Apparently, the special sizes of the CGT tires made them unprofitable to manufacture at regular intervals. After the initial production runs in 2004/2005, Michelin appeared not to make any more until 2008/2009 (judging by the sidewall markings). Every time I would buy "new" tires to replace those heat-cycled-at-the-track, they didn't seem to be any better than the degraded tires they replaced. Well, both sets were the same age and the "new" tires had been "pre-heat-cycled" by having been stored for years in a hot warehouse. The older they were, the less grippy they proved to be. "New" or not.

The Michelin Super Sport tire was a huge improvement. It is way less temperature sensitive and much better in the rain for transit legs to and from the track. They seem to be a few seconds faster at the track compared to freshly molded OEM tires. Recently, Porsche put them through their tire testing approval program and they are now available in "N0" certification. Some press accounts maintain that these tires alone have "transformed" the Carrera GT into an all time great handling car.

So, if a CGT hasn't had benefit of the rear bar adjustment and the fitting of Super Sport tires, it might deserve a more harsh description than most 600+ hp cars of its age. But, I love mine the way it is, now. One still must respect the power/weight ratio and its street-tire traction levels, but it is in no way dangerous to drive.

BTW, I had a brake-booster hydraulic pump failure occur in my car. It dribbled brake fluid onto the inside of the front carbon under trays, but it never reached the tires.

wtdoom

One more thing
AMERICAN OWNERS : A lot of USA cars were ordered with higher drop links ( and some eu cars ) . If you are going to use this car hard I recommend you put the car back on to the original height drop links . This sits the car lower and the suspension and aero work better at this improved/optimal centre of gravity .

Adker

Using the links above, the pole that was hit is to the left in the picture below. From this view, it seems like a lot of straight road was between the corner and the pole and it is a two way road. Straight line acceleration after the curve seems to fit or some sort of mechanical issue. Just a shame the poles are right next to the road.

wtdoom

Eyewitness account
“Roger lost control of the control. They didn’t spin or anything. They went into a tree. They hit four trees and took a big light pole down. The light pole came down and the car bounced off of it. And then they crashed into a tree, that’s what eventually stopped the car,” Jim said.

30 mph ? You decide .

alive555

correct the distance between the corner and the lamppost is well over 100m

there seem to be a lot of cctvs up that street so I guess the speed of the car will become known shortly.

911SLOW

I will be posting the car's technical information in the link below so that Rennlist members can read something accurate about the CGT.

https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...formation.html





RIP to the two young guys and condolences to their families and loved ones.


J.

wtdoom

Of course deepest condolences to their families .

Please allow me to help you .

Below some information regarding cgt chassis , stiffness etc.

http://www.speautomotive.com/SPEA_CD...4/pdf/e/e3.pdf

Apart from its outstanding driving characteristics, the Carrera GT is also a very safe car. This ultra-high-performance sports car offers all of Porsche’s well-known active safety features even at the highest speeds, complying with all worldwide crash regulations. In its levels of torsional stiffness, the Carrera GT sets a new record for open cars, excellent passive safety being provided by the strength of the composite carbon fibre monocoque passenger cell and supplemented by integral rollbars on the A- and B-pillars. For even greater strength and safety, the A-pillars are further reinforced by high-strength steel tubes.

Taking passive safety to an even higher level, the longitudinal arms or “chassis legs“ on the Carrera GT are made of high-strength stainless steel. This crash structure at the front and rear, comprising suitable deformation profiles, ensures smooth and consistent absorption of energy and impact forces with the bumper system featuring an ultra-strong aluminium crossbar and impact tubes. Particular attention has been paid to providing suitable protection of the 92-litre (20.25 Imp gallon) fuel tank – the safest place for the deep-drawn aluminium tank is within the monocoque structure between the passenger cell and the engine compartment. Inside the cockpit, four airbags make yet another contribution to the car’s high standard of passive safety, with full-size front and side airbags for both driver and passenger. The side impact system also features a reinforced door panel with high-strength steel tubes serving to absorb impact energy.

quoted from
http://www.carpages.co.uk/porsche/po...7_01_06_04.asp

American Chemistry Council
http://www.plastics-car.com/PorscheCarreraGT_study

heres another you may find interesting re the carbon structure ( unfortunately it is a quote from Compositesworld , the original is no longer online )
http://www.porschete.es/foreitor/vie....php?f=7&t=799

a press kit with some info
http://press.porsche.com/archive/pro...evels_2006.pdf

and heres a quote of the review where the magazine were told what I was re the rsr at the factory .

http://www.importracer.com.ar/vb/arc...p/t-26608.html
"All that carbon fiber means the entire monocoque weighs just 220 pounds. How strong is it? Rather than quote torsional rigidity numbers, Porsche says that even without a roof the GT is stiffer than a Porsche 911 RSR racer with a full cage."

I think the cgt carbon tub is pretty safe .
regards
wt

neanicu

It's this type of junk that is fueling the " fire " :

http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/03/paul-w...erous-hazards/


RIP

Sean F

While the neighbourhood in which the Fast & Furious star died is known to attract street racers, accident investigators "have received eyewitness statements that the car involved was travelling alone at a high rate of speed," the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department said in a written statement Monday.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-...#ixzz2mQe8gCYA

beden1

Thanks for the information. Even with all of the advanced structural design and materials, including "the safest place for the deep-drawn aluminium tank is within the monocoque structure between the passenger cell and the engine compartment", their CGT didn't hold up to the impact and protect the passengers.

mousecatcher

As do I, but torsional stiffness is not related to crash safety. Even F1 cars have a steel roll hoop.

Vandit

A CF monocoque is strong and stiff when stressed/loaded in a manner and direction for which it was designed (e.g. torsional forces), but it is not designed for being run into a solid object such as a pole.

That's why the suspension on F1 cars can sustain massive forces lap after lap yet it still shatters to bits in an accident.

Stephen Pitts

Okay, well I contributed to the Daily Mail comment section… CGT1124.