multi21

You are just rehashing something from a 25 page thread. In the instance you sited, the OP should have taken into account that the car he was passing was a rookie and MAY DO SOMETHING UNEXPECTED. The gray area was that the AREA of the track the OP tried to pass him was very dangerous and could have waited until the next corner. What no one has mentioned in 30 pages of discussion between the 2 threads is the actual account from the driver of the white 944. What if the 944 driver DID see the OP and figured that he would not be able to make that pass at that dangerous corner and to wait until after the corner?

multi21

Of all the people who have chimed in on this topic, only 2 have a problem with the rules as currently written (hf1 and streak). I'm not denying that there are people that use the rules and the chop as a way to keep others at bay, but please understand that in the instance that the OP had, he was passing a car out of class and there was no need for the 944 to chop him. And the percentage of people who do chop are quite small and, just like the OP, build a reputation based on their on track actions.

Having raced for years, there is so secret handshake, just mutual respect and reputations. The racing in PCA spec classes is extremely competitive, close and exciting. There is a lot of passing that goes on in the corners and it's because the drivers have that mutual respect and TRUST amongst each other to the point where if there is contact, it's surprising and unexpected. From what I've seen in your videos and accounts from others, you display none of the above! It's not meant as a personal attack but rather based on known FACTS from video and actions. You may be the greatest guy in the paddock, but if you're a menace on the track, the 13 is meant for people exactly like that.

I've raced open wheel where touching can lead to flips and DNFs, PCA, POC and NASA. I didn't like the NASA culture of hitting each other and the 3/4 width rule because just like the chop, people were using the 3/4 rule to legally run others off the racing surface. The chop is NOT considered a legal manever in PCA and if interpreted by the race stewards to be a chop, it can lead to DQ/13 etc.

In the end, people will race where they feel most comfortable and it doesn't sound like PCA is for you. Perhaps finding a race series where contact is tolerated or a blind eye turned when it does happen, it more suited to your style. Personally, I don't what someone going 125 mph next to me who is worried about the interpretation of rules rather than both of us going through the corner safely.

racing916

Can the OP get a 13 month suspension from rennlist for starting this thread. Give it up you were wrong. That might be the lowest percentage place to make a successful pass at Monticello.

T&T Racing

A word of common sense for OP

IMHO, OP is experiencing grief of losing his ability to race with PCS for 13 months. The first OP post writings by OP were mostly anger and denial. Anger and then denial are the first 2 stages of grief.

This post writings by OP are bargaining, the 4th stage of grief, re-writing the 13/13 rule. So OP, you have moved forward and hope that if there is a subsequent OP post or a thread to this second post, the message indicates a move to acceptance of the consequence, the 5th and last stage of grief.

Acceptance is a reflection of lessons learned and how to be a more reflective.and track awareness race driver.Not there yet, maybe why it is 13 months, because it takes.that long to move forward with sustainable acceptance.

1990nein

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Tom W

Mark, you really should think or check the facts before you post crap like this.

PRC's rule is that there is no 3-wide until after the first turn. It has proven to significantly reduce carnage at race start and still allow great racing.

We spent a lot of time last year looking at passing rules and how to make it a bit more clear as the membership didn't like simply leaving all judgement to the stewards. Our rules: http://www.prc-racing.com/wp-content...dix_C_2017.pdf

Simply stated, if you leave the door open for an inside pass and the other person gets any overlap, you must leave room. If the passer is on the outside and has overlap, you must leave room at corner exit. We've seen significantly less car-to-car contact since we implemented these rules.

Streak

NO ONE IS TRYING TO REWRITE THE 13/13 RULE!!!!!!!!!!

Holy crap I've rarely seen such nonsense as this from a few. The OP had another thread. Forget the other thread. Get the F over it. The passing rule has been debated for years! That's what this thread is about.

Still waiting for someone to tell me what exactly is wrong with the rules I posted from other series. All have a solid 13/13 (FYI GTS in NASA has a car width rule of one car plus 6"). All put the burden on the passing car but all also qualify when the passing car might be absolved. There's just more clarification and more closely resemble real life.

FYI the chop is not against the rules in PCA. Please post up examples where the car being passed in a corner was found at fault for a chop.

Streak

Winner!

Why is this concept so difficult for PCA?

hf1

That's almost an exact copy of the proposed rule in the OP.
Hunt, what would you add to it or replace it with?

Fumes

sorry but stfu and drive.

respect comes with experience, as does humility and skill.

GSM

Good governance requires that the precision of rules (for passing and otherwise) needs to be matched to the ability of drivers to execute. Since PCA includes many novice drivers, the rules need to stay sufficiently simple. The original video of the pass provides plenty of evidence that adding more regulatory nuance would not have prevented the contact.

Streak

No one is saying it would. In fact I've stated that the rules I posted would still have found fault with the orange car. But not every situation is so cut and dry. The other series are also amateur level series. What's your point?

Too simple lives too much to interpretation and can lead novice drivers to make assumptions that are incorrect. More clarification can better advise racers at every level and stewards. How many rookies in that other thread asked for clarification? More than a few. That's an indicator the rule is not well written.

The spirit of the rule is all well and fine but why not write it the hell down?

Others do it. Is PCA just a bunch of simpletons or something? We can't handle too many words?

Still waiting for anyone to tell me why PCA can't add a few sentences of clarification like other series, actually all other series, do.

Streak

What's that have to do with the rules?

Streak

1. The responsibility to pass safely rests with the overtaking driver however both drivers must be situationally aware that a pass is happening and leave racing room.

2. The car ahead at turn in has the corner but does not “own” the corner. Once the trailing car has its front wheel next to the driver of the other vehicle, it is considered that the trailing car has a right to be there. And, that the leading driver must leave the trailing driver enough “racing room.”

3. Racing room is defined as one car width plus 6"

Or barring that some specific definition of what a chop is and when it's not OK for the lead car to got to the apex or track out. Everyone is pretty clear on what a dive bomb is.

I dunno but the above doesn't seem reckless or unreasonable does it?

hf1

I disagree. The proposed rule doesn't even mention a lead or a following car. Any two cars 'entangled' together with an overlap have equal responsibility to leave room for the other. How does this have the responsibility fall almost completely on the lead car?