spruden

Wow - looks like someone with more money than sense or experience. Yikes.

ELange0322

Well - thanks for giving me some clarity Mike. Honestly, there are a number of regions / groups that I just avoid and wont run with because of what goes on at a drivers education event. I hadnt really put much thought around racing as just seems like such an extreme jump... maybe I need to speak with some people and consider more. Thanks for the viewpoint. Much appreciated.

Tom W

Mike: We always try and talk to the people involved in an incident. The cup cars that were there last weekend are not folk I've ever seen race with PRC in the past. Over the last 2 years we've made changes to our rules and our penalty structure to reduce the number of on-track incidents. I think it's working.

ProCoach

Tom, are they trickling in from the Pirelli GT3 Cup Trophy series?

mark kibort

I agree with tom...... most orgs have being proactive to provide new drivers with tips to keep safer in club events.

we have had quite a few of the pirelli cup drivers doing double duty in our races. you can see some of their driving choices in some of my videos. mostly they are good.... much of if is just experience.
I wouldnt say that going strictly DE solves any risk BTW.

ProCoach

Tom, if you don't mind sharing, what specific rules changes has the group made and what specific changes to penalty structure? What outcomes make you believe it's working?

The reason why I ask is this is a broad issue across ALL sanctioning bodies, in all areas of motorsport. Sharing successful strategies and executions will help folks do it better, hopefully.

We have an issue in historic racing now where more and more frequently, drivers involved in incidents like this one, even if they are judged "at fault" by the stewards and/or drivers committee, may be permitted to continue. Even if they're currently on probation for another incident.

That is not the way to reduce on-track incidents, IMO.

Veloce Raptor

Wow what a douche bag.

White car need to be banned for at least a year. And have a finger slowly and painfully removed by the driver of the car he crashed.

winders

That #69 white Cup Car was a real gem of a driver. One lap before the shunt, the #69 went off at the exit of turn 4 and almost collected another BMW when coming back on the track.

On Saturday, I started the race from pole and none of the Cup Cars were able to catch me and I am glad I did not have to dice with them. On Sunday, they were faster so they either got more comfortable with the track, got more aggressive, or both. I started P2. The P1 Cup Car got away from me right away. The other 2 Cup Cars passed me between 6 and 7. I was quicker than the #69 car but had no desire to mix it up with him as he was over driving. As long as I was not being pressured by the second place car in my class I was content to watch from behind.

The aforementioned off at the exit of turn 4 put me ahead of the #69 car until he passed me causing the shunt.

The driver of the BMW ended up in the hospital with two broken ribs. Luckily it was no worse than that.

David993S

Mark,

I think the title of your thread is a little inaccurate - certainly #69 was unaware, but that move was far more than "sloppiness". It was down right unacceptably irresponsible and dangerous with potentially deadly consequences. That certainly cannot be classified as a racing incident.

No excuse for that kind of driving on the race track. Probation at the very least, and perhaps his license should be suspended for a period of time.

Brainofjjj

I know the driver of the BMW and am glad he's ok. The Pcar driver is a "Wallet Pro" and was warned throughout the weekend. Hopefully he doesn't return to a Nasa event, ever. Sucks the car is most likely totaled as it was a well built, fast car.

Glen

And the white cars driver name is......?

winders

I saw that he was trying to go inside so I moved over to the far right to give him plenty of room....

winders

According to the scoring sheet, his name is "Adan Ramos". A Google search suggests he is from Mexico and there are photos with Porsche Cup Cars.

Mahler9th

So that's what happened....

Disclosure: I helped create the PRC back in 2001. I was in this race.

PRC races under NASA sanction. We have our own tech and Chief Steward, and they are NASA officials. The PRC Chief Steward was also in this race.

Our Chief Steward has been racing since the 60's and we are lucky to have him working with us since we started (he was at the first meetings in 2001).

I had some kind of problem with BHP across the board all weekend-- difficult to troubleshoot. Was down quite a bit of power and my lap times were at least 5-6 seconds off from where I'd naturally qualify.

On Saturday that 69 car was in the back for some reason, and acted like a complete douche bag at the start.

In the Sunday race, I was hopeful the the BMW driver was okay. We (PRC) were told by NASA that we must again mix with GTS and Spec 46's, and we have been adjusting well as far as I can tell. Hopefully the BMW folk realize that this idiot is not a part of PRC culture.

I think there were three guys with factory cars that joined us last weekend. We have not had that happen in a long time. I am sure that our Chief Steward went through things carefully with these folks.

I can say that the driver of #69 did not behave consistent with our rules and culture Saturday at race start, but of course I do not know why.

I have seen douche bags come and go in my time racing and of course my time with PRC. They have always self-selected out.

Our "adjudication team" will likely come down hard on this person, and hopefully we will never see him again. As for the other two, I will withhold comment, but they should be admonished that our rules AND culture are TANTAMOUNT, and if they cannot color within the lines, they should go somewhere else.

I hope that the BMW driver recovers fully and quickly, and I am so sorry to see this type of thing.

ProCoach

Good Lord! The BMW driver sustained an injury at the hands of the 69 car?!?!? And demonstrated a pattern of bad behavior identified by others BEFORE the incident in the video?!?!?

THIS is the problem. When the behavior is SO egregious that other drivers note it and it never abates, usually resulting in a larger accident that is caused by, you guessed it, a driver who has been vetted, briefed, counseled AND warned to cease and desist, the stewards can do a better job...

This just adds fuel to the fire and legitimizes, in these folks minds, over aggressive and unsafe behavior. I'm sure PRC runs a good program, and NASA does a reasonable job of spelling out the rules... What can be changed to avoid this kind of incident?

These people self select only after the organizers call them to account.

You have to enforce the rules, hopefully before someone gets hurt. Sheesh...