Clark-ApexPerformance

Thanks Frank. Don't know if enthusiast is the proper term. When I look at all I put into this car to bring it back to life, I think "nutcase' might be more appropriate.

jjvincent

My dad bought that car at the end of the 1981 Runoffs and we ran it in 1982. I suggest you look at the rear suspension and transmission mounting location. They are moved up higher than stock to correct for suspension geometry and the angle that the axles ran at. It was illegal at the time but we figured nobody would figure it out (nobody ever did until years down the road). In 1982, we finished 2nd at the runoffs and sold the car to John Schneider.

Those jack points were installed sometime in 1981. You have to remember, pretty much every track had a dirt paddock and using that point along with plywood helped get the car up in the air. people today don;t realize how good they have it.

The last chassis was #16 and we were halfway through making it into a 944 but that deal all fell apart. So it ended up becoming Toms car when he ran a few years later in GT3.

Plus, the original ones all had MFI (which made more power). So for 1982, SCCA put a 200lb weight increase on the car if you ran MFI. Thus we literally ran out of tire and lost. As for anyone wondering about BoP in racing today, it happened back then. We just called it, "rules change".

Clark-ApexPerformance

Is your dad John Osteen? He ran the car in 1982. The rear suspension on the car now is very very trick (unlike the others) It is very much like the 935 rear suspension.
The number 16 chassis is the only one assembled at the factory. As a matter of fact if you look at the video of the #54 during qualifying you will see the #16 in the video. We out quailfied the #16 by 5 seconds per lap.
The #16 was delivered to a new customer at Rennsport. THe 1985 car BRennan won GT3 with is now owned by Scott Sanda in Chicago. Don't know what chassis number the GT3 car is but know it can't be #16.
Brennan has #10 (all original) at his shop it still has the MFI on it.

Clark-ApexPerformance

Had a long conversation with Tom last night. Tom told me he bought the 1985 GT3 car from Dave Finch. I never realized it but this must be the car that Finch sued Porsche over (and won).THis car is now owned by Scott Sanda from Chicago. A family in Pittsburgh ended up with both the 1981 and 1885 cars. THey were both for sale at the same time and I opted for the 1981 car because of its notoriety. SCott bought the 1985 car. I bought the #54 in 1994 and Scott bought the "Alan Johnson" sponsored car shortly thereafter..

jjvincent

I forgot about that. Dave won the battle but lost the war. There was a major change in 1983 because VWoA stopped becoming the importer for Porsche and all of the promises that the motorsport head of VWoA (which were many) were no longer valid with the new setup. Dave won the chassis and a bunch of pre production 944 parts. Looking back on it, that was not the best move but that's water under the bridge. History shows why that was not a good idea.

Your car was sold to John Schneider and then to Bruce Frenzel. Have no idea where it went after that. By that time we were into SCCA Showroom Stock and ran one of the two most rare 944 Turbos of all time. After that my dad and i were the creators of the infamous 944S2 Clubsports and won the IMSA Firehawk Championship in 1990 and 2nd in 1991.

My dad is John Vincent and that's my name too (he's Jr and I'm the 3rd). He had a Porsche Audi repair shop in St. Louis (thus the name "Autobahn on the car). When Tom won the runoffs in 1981 in DP, we won in EP with a 356.

I still do racing today but as an engineer. I never got out of it. I did go to the Classic 24 this year with a Rolex GT Corvette I used to run against back 13 years ago. That was a great race because I was able to see what I grew up with and realize how far we have come.

Clark-ApexPerformance

I find this all very interesting. The people I bought the car from in 1994 told me they had bought it from a car dealer in St Louis. I know Bruce FRenzel was the third owner I spoke to him once. THink he is from the St Louis area. The family in PIttsburgh that had both the cars was the Bromlichs from Wexford Pa. They could not figure out the 1981 car so they bought the 85 car from a fellow by the name of Mike Sifert from Cleveland. He was an avid SCCA racer and an attorney.
I still use hand written notes he gave them regarding start up etc.
I stand corrected on what Tom previously told me. POrsche supplied John Osteen, Tom Brennan and Dave Finch all cars to be run in CP. John Osteen and Tom did nothing and sat on the cars where Finch got sponsors and spent money. When Porsche backed out this led to Finch's law suit. I assume all 3 of these cars were 933s (924DP) Chassis. Tom told me that the car he won GT3 in was the car Porsche had supplied him to run CP.

Jim H.

I loved seeing the DP cars run at Rennsport and Andrew was really quick. Disappointing that they group these cars with the bigger cars...it would've been interesting to see them run with the old 911s.

They're really beautiful and trick and the MFI is a real cool piece of work. I'm lucky to have #14 which was unraced and sat on Vasek Polak's shelf (literally) it's whole life until it was restored and ended up with me. I had planned to run it hard but alas...no time and still a lot of sorting to do. Here's a couple of pics of one "as delivered".
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Jim H.

well those pics didn't upload very well...and don't really do the engine justice. Hopefully this one is better...

Clark-ApexPerformance

Jim,
The mechanical fuel injection was removed from all these cars because of the expense involved. The injection was big bucks and SCCA wanted the average racer to be able to use it. Tom Brennan told me that they dynodes with the injection and with the webers. He said there was no advantage to the MFI over the webers....the horsepower was the same. We have never met but I know who you are from Charles Coker. I am taking #54 to Ameilia Island next March for the one day Porsche show. You ought to think about bringing #14 down to Amelia. Tom Brennan will be with me again. Over the years a lot of the true facts about these cars has been distorted. Brennan is 76 and sharp as a tack. If he doesn't know something he doesn't make something up just to give you an answer. My chassis is #11. Brennan has #10 in his garage, his car like yours is original still with MFI.
I lobbied to have these 2.0L cars run with the 911s and was told no. THe desparity in horsepower in Group 4 was scary. The 2.0L 933s had maybe 200 HP. The 935s were more like 600 HP. I sent so many emails. I complained to Rennsport so much that Bruce Canepa himself called me. He explained that it was being done this way because Porsche wanted it done this way. Porsche wanted all the cars from the same time frame on the track at the same time.
As it turned out it worked out fine

Jim H.

I've also heard from reliable sources (Michael Mount in particular) that the cars made the same or better horsepower with carbs. I'm mostly interested in historical accuracy for #14 at this point. It runs fine with the MFI and has great throttle response, although it's a 2 person job to start as you have to have one person reach WAY in under the intake runners and pull an enrichment lever on the back of the kugelfischer pump to get it started when cold.

It's a sexy intake system, on par with all the normally aspirated factory RSR motors before it...hard to believe the work that went into making just a few examples.

gums

Interesting thread, to me, guys, because I raced what I now know, thanks to Clarke, what was apparently an "Outlaw" 924DP. Clarke now owns it, Anyway, it had carbs and although it was a finicky car, startup was never an issue.

stownsen914

I'm sure you thought of this already, but on the old 911 MFI for racing applications (granted those are Bosch not Kugelfischer) some guys put a cable to actuate the cold start, similar to a choke pull cable like cars used to have.

Jim H.

Yep, thought about running a cable but stuck with keeping it original for the time being. Thanks for the input though. Jim

Clark-ApexPerformance

Frank looks like your "outlaw" 924 tube frame car is going to end up with Tom Brennan. We are doing a "trade" that will work well for both of us. Tom will have this thing back at the track quickly.

gums

OH that would be fantastic and of great interest to me. Please keep me in the loop and I would love to be in touch with Tom as well.