Road atlanta onboard footage
04-12-2018, 07:56 PM
#76
The Penguin King
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Above commemt is is not aimed at the OP, as I’m sure he knew there would be comments, and he has admitted he should have slowed. Kudos to him for this.
04-12-2018, 08:02 PM
#77
The Penguin King
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From the MX-5 Cup rules. PCA rule book doesn’t have the same language btw.
7.2.2.1. Local – Signifies the start of the Yellow Condition at the point where the flag is displayed or Track Condition Light is illuminated.
a) Motionless – A motionless yellow flag means reduce speed, overtaking not permitted, be prepared to change direction, a hazard beside or near the edge of the Track or a forewarning of a waved yellow flag ahead.
b) Waved - A waved yellow flag means reduce speed, overtaking is not permitted, be prepared to take evasive action or stop, a hazard wholly or partially blocking the Track.
7.2.2.1. Local – Signifies the start of the Yellow Condition at the point where the flag is displayed or Track Condition Light is illuminated.
a) Motionless – A motionless yellow flag means reduce speed, overtaking not permitted, be prepared to change direction, a hazard beside or near the edge of the Track or a forewarning of a waved yellow flag ahead.
b) Waved - A waved yellow flag means reduce speed, overtaking is not permitted, be prepared to take evasive action or stop, a hazard wholly or partially blocking the Track.
04-12-2018, 08:54 PM
#78
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The OP is an excellent shoe and is eager to do better.
There are scads of PCA racers who could stand to learn from this thread.
The OP more than has, but will the others that need to hear this?
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04-12-2018, 09:54 PM
#79
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I'll say I learned something. Never knew ( been doing this for 15 yrs) that a waving yellow should/could be prefaced with a standing one.
+1 kudos to Seb for posting this up. It's created a great discussion / learning thread
+1 kudos to Seb for posting this up. It's created a great discussion / learning thread
04-13-2018, 09:13 AM
#80
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I've only flagged a few Club Races but our instructions were consistent and clear. We 'own' the yellow and debris flags, control 'owns' the black and red flags such that we can't deploy them until we are told to do so. As for flags, standing yellow is sometime offline or off track, waiving yellow is something online (we all know this). I will also say that it is hard to waive the hell out of the yellow flag while you are holding a debris flag. That's why we try to have multiple people at each station; hand the debris to the assistant while the captain waives the yellow furiously.
04-13-2018, 09:29 AM
#81
Burning Brakes
Never flagged so unsure and may be a stupid question..........why cant you waive both yellow and debris furiously?........would definately convey importance and may be an improved practice
04-13-2018, 12:18 PM
#82
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The PCA rule book has this to say about yellow flags:Yellow: Caution. Stationary ‐ hazard ahead, no passing. Waving ‐ Danger, slow down safely, no passing. Yellow/Red Stripes: Slippery surface or debris on the track. Double Yellow: Caution. No passing, full course yellow. Form up on the lead car and resume racing with green flag at start/finish in single file. Underline was added for emphasis.
At Road Atlanta the turn 11 flag station is arguably the most important flag station on the track. The flag is at the top of a blind hill where the driver cannot see the track ahead until reaching the top of the hill. This flag station should never be ignored. In this situation the corner-worker was out of the stand and standing on the wall. The flag was literally over the edge of the track. The flag station at 10 was displaying a yellow as well. That is common when a waiving yellow is pointing to a particularly dangerous situation. Coming up the hill near the top the worker is the only thing useful you can see. The Turn 11 flag station controls the area from the flag station to the next flag station which is the starter. That is only a few hundred yards of track. The most information that can be given to a driver about what is ahead at that station is a waving yellow with a debris flag. That tells you that there is danger ahead. It tells you to slow down. It tells you there is something on the track and its between the turn 11 flag station and the starters stand. No other flag will give you all that information. The driver must slow down and stay under control until he can see what the problem is.
Bryan
At Road Atlanta the turn 11 flag station is arguably the most important flag station on the track. The flag is at the top of a blind hill where the driver cannot see the track ahead until reaching the top of the hill. This flag station should never be ignored. In this situation the corner-worker was out of the stand and standing on the wall. The flag was literally over the edge of the track. The flag station at 10 was displaying a yellow as well. That is common when a waiving yellow is pointing to a particularly dangerous situation. Coming up the hill near the top the worker is the only thing useful you can see. The Turn 11 flag station controls the area from the flag station to the next flag station which is the starter. That is only a few hundred yards of track. The most information that can be given to a driver about what is ahead at that station is a waving yellow with a debris flag. That tells you that there is danger ahead. It tells you to slow down. It tells you there is something on the track and its between the turn 11 flag station and the starters stand. No other flag will give you all that information. The driver must slow down and stay under control until he can see what the problem is.
Bryan
04-13-2018, 01:52 PM
#83
Drifting
at that part of the course or to point on which side of the track there is debris but it is never to be waved.
Flaggers have assigned duties on their corners and there is ONE flagger responsible for the yellow flag and another assigned the blue and another assigned the debris flag ...
The flag responsibilities depend on the corner crew chief who will assign the different flags according to who he thinks is fit for the job , some flaggers are better and more demonstrative than others and in this
case i think with a stalled car on track coming into a blind area, it should have deserved a more vigourous action ... the drivers can only interpret what they see at a flagging station.Some organizations will have a fixed yellow at the station preceding where there
is a waved yellow, while others won't
I can vouch that the flagger in corner 6 at Mosport is an important one to acknowledge as it doesn't take long for a flock of Cup cars to come up quickly behind you after you exit 5C ... they combined the PCA enduros two years ago with SP2 cars running with
pro drivers in CUP cars !
04-14-2018, 11:50 AM
#84
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The debris flag isn't waived, it needs to be held perpendicular to traffic so everyone can see it. Meanwhile you are waiving the yellow flag with the other arm.
04-14-2018, 02:59 PM
#85
Burning Brakes
Appreciate the response and understand
may be worth looking into certain situations (like when 1 flagger is holding both) allowing for both to be waived, I know I've seen it before at Watkins in the laces of the boot....
I know most drivers really react to the body language of the flaggers ....
that yellow almost looked stationary under the bridge cause of the effort to keep the debris stationary and wind.
please dont take this as a ....this should a woulda coulda, just hoping to add constructive progress.
I remember scca usd to have a print out of different hand signals etc....PCA potomac actually looked into this as well to give instructors a way to communicate with flag stations.....I'm ok...need a tow vs need a flat bed.
Similar to scuba...tap your head your ok....wave your hand to say hi....need help asap.
I think some basic signs like that could go a long way in clu. Racing or upper run groups or instructors....
similar to the rain point to the sky.....first time I saw that I had no idea what it meant till i found the corner worker at the happy hour and said thank you
may be worth looking into certain situations (like when 1 flagger is holding both) allowing for both to be waived, I know I've seen it before at Watkins in the laces of the boot....
I know most drivers really react to the body language of the flaggers ....
that yellow almost looked stationary under the bridge cause of the effort to keep the debris stationary and wind.
please dont take this as a ....this should a woulda coulda, just hoping to add constructive progress.
I remember scca usd to have a print out of different hand signals etc....PCA potomac actually looked into this as well to give instructors a way to communicate with flag stations.....I'm ok...need a tow vs need a flat bed.
Similar to scuba...tap your head your ok....wave your hand to say hi....need help asap.
I think some basic signs like that could go a long way in clu. Racing or upper run groups or instructors....
similar to the rain point to the sky.....first time I saw that I had no idea what it meant till i found the corner worker at the happy hour and said thank you
04-15-2018, 08:35 AM
#86
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I have always considered the outcomes when seeing a waving yellow I can slow up and avoid the reason for the flag and avoid possibly injuring a driver who is in a vulnerable position and so what if someone passes me by ignoring the yellow I can deal with that later also it is kind of instinctive when I slow up the cars behind me follow suit I think it is the same with the opposite if you do not slow up the folks behind don't either. It is one reason I wear Yellow race gloves to wave out side window or inside the car if a car is coming up fast on my *** and ignoring yellow.
Rich
Rich
05-14-2018, 03:12 PM
#87
Drifting
Was watching the videos again today from Rd Atl club race and thinking about the accident and this thread here on RL...
Back in the early 2000's I raced NASCAR Late Model Stock cars on Saturday nights on little round ovals in Virginia and the Carolinas, typically 1/2 mile or less. We couldn't see anything tucked up behind the car in front of us. Most tracks had one flagger at start/finish and some a few lights around the track. We relied on our spotters at the top of the grandstands to tell us on the radio when there was an accident. But sometimes that wasn't enough. What really did it was the little yellow light on the dash of every car. When it lit up that meant caution flag - slow down and no passing. Often times the light came on just before my spotter yelled in my ears.
Maybe a yellow light on the dash of every car??? Here's how it could work: 1) off, no caution, 2) on, yellow flag somewhere on the track, and 3) blinking, full course caution.
The light is controlled by the tower, and all cars are on the same signal.
It looked like a yellow hockey puck sitting on top of the dash.
Thoughts?
Back in the early 2000's I raced NASCAR Late Model Stock cars on Saturday nights on little round ovals in Virginia and the Carolinas, typically 1/2 mile or less. We couldn't see anything tucked up behind the car in front of us. Most tracks had one flagger at start/finish and some a few lights around the track. We relied on our spotters at the top of the grandstands to tell us on the radio when there was an accident. But sometimes that wasn't enough. What really did it was the little yellow light on the dash of every car. When it lit up that meant caution flag - slow down and no passing. Often times the light came on just before my spotter yelled in my ears.
Maybe a yellow light on the dash of every car??? Here's how it could work: 1) off, no caution, 2) on, yellow flag somewhere on the track, and 3) blinking, full course caution.
The light is controlled by the tower, and all cars are on the same signal.
It looked like a yellow hockey puck sitting on top of the dash.
Thoughts?
05-14-2018, 03:37 PM
#88
The Penguin King
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Was watching the videos again today from Rd Atl club race and thinking about the accident and this thread here on RL...
Back in the early 2000's I raced NASCAR Late Model Stock cars on Saturday nights on little round ovals in Virginia and the Carolinas, typically 1/2 mile or less. We couldn't see anything tucked up behind the car in front of us. Most tracks had one flagger at start/finish and some a few lights around the track. We relied on our spotters at the top of the grandstands to tell us on the radio when there was an accident. But sometimes that wasn't enough. What really did it was the little yellow light on the dash of every car. When it lit up that meant caution flag - slow down and no passing. Often times the light came on just before my spotter yelled in my ears.
Maybe a yellow light on the dash of every car??? Here's how it could work: 1) off, no caution, 2) on, yellow flag somewhere on the track, and 3) blinking, full course caution.
The light is controlled by the tower, and all cars are on the same signal.
It looked like a yellow hockey puck sitting on top of the dash.
Thoughts?
Back in the early 2000's I raced NASCAR Late Model Stock cars on Saturday nights on little round ovals in Virginia and the Carolinas, typically 1/2 mile or less. We couldn't see anything tucked up behind the car in front of us. Most tracks had one flagger at start/finish and some a few lights around the track. We relied on our spotters at the top of the grandstands to tell us on the radio when there was an accident. But sometimes that wasn't enough. What really did it was the little yellow light on the dash of every car. When it lit up that meant caution flag - slow down and no passing. Often times the light came on just before my spotter yelled in my ears.
Maybe a yellow light on the dash of every car??? Here's how it could work: 1) off, no caution, 2) on, yellow flag somewhere on the track, and 3) blinking, full course caution.
The light is controlled by the tower, and all cars are on the same signal.
It looked like a yellow hockey puck sitting on top of the dash.
Thoughts?
05-14-2018, 05:28 PM
#89
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GrandAm, now IMSA, requires this.