sugarwood

Someone I know who has done DE events for 2 years has expressed an interest in instructing
I think this is a great idea.
If the car hobby is indeed shrinking & dying and fewer people reach higher levels of hardcore track racing,
I do wonder sometimes what the inflow vs outflow pipeline looks like. At some point, will be run out of instructors?

To teach a green DE about the line, flags, looking ahead, etc one probably does not need to be a master Formula 1 racer.
So, when is it appropriate for a person to pursue becoming an instructor? What are some of the faster progressions you've heard of ?

LuigiVampa

Took me about three years of being serious at the track to start my instructor training.

I played around with a couple of DEs a year going back about 9 years. In 2013 I started driving with PCA and went from green to yellow solo. In 2014 I went to white. In 2015 did my first club race at Sebring and went to black by the end of the year. At the end of 2016 I started instructor training, but because of club racing, I didn't finish all my days on track and become a full fledged PCA national instructor until early 2017.

The PCA instructors are awesome and they put me on the correct path. In addition to them I have hired various professional coaches most notably Grant Maiman. His lessons have trickled down into my instructing.

I've found the more I instruct the easier it is and the more I enjoy it.

KevinGross

In PCA's Zone 1, I think it's correct to say we have a large and growing number of instructors. I mentored two candidates at the Zone 1 48 Hours at WGI last month, another two for Northeast more recently. They were all terrific. I have about 25 years experience as an instructor, and I can also say with certainty that the quality of our instructors has only continued to improve. PCA's national instructor program has played a big part in that. There also just seems to be a positive culture around who and how we instruct: it's not an old boys network, it's really about great teaching.

I can't tell you how the zone and regions select instructor candidates -- I get to work with them farther down the pipeline. My sense is that candidates have to demonstrate competence as drivers, and they have to show an aptitude for communicating and instructing. There are certainly some brilliant advanced drivers and racers who just haven't the inclination to instruct, which to me is fine. It's also true as the OP notes that you don't need to be the world's best driver to instruct: you do need to stay a few steps ahead of any student you'll get in terms of skills while keeping both of you safe on track. Perhaps Matt R or Pete T will chime in to this thread, they should have a lot of insight to offer. And you can always check with your region CI or instructor development people, they can fill you in on the process. Please do if you're interested: we welcome new folks.

Nickshu

I too am interested in becoming a PCA instructor. I've been doing HPDE regularly for about 4 years now, first with my Lotus Elise with NASA, then my 996 with PCA. I think it would be fun and I'm generally pretty good at teaching people technical things (in my regular life/job). Plus it would give me something else fun to do between my run group's sessions. I guess I should ask at my next event.

Blue Chip

Thundermoose

I think most competent sole DE drivers can become an instructor. You certainly do not have to be a super fast driver with tens of years of experience. In fact, I think some of the really great drivers stink as instructors and some of the slower guys really excel at coaches. In any event, going through a top notch ITS program like the ones PCA and BMW run are a must. I know at BMW ITS at COTA a couple of years ago, several of the candidates did not pass and several others needed quite a bit of remediation.

I instructed with NASA once and other than a few years of TT experience I really had no instructor qualificiations and I think I was horrible. I feel bad for my student.

I also think the traditional model of right seat instruction needs to be rethought with the power that the new generation of cars is bringing to the track. Part of the solution in my mind is to really improve the ITS programs. I think PCA and BMW already get this right, but a lot of the other track day organizations are too loose. I also think that another part of the solution may be more use of post session data analysis, especially for intermediate solo drivers. That is, perhaps use right seat instruction for novice group, but leave instructors out of the car in the intermediate solo groups but have them do post session video analysis. Similar time commitment but safer for instructor. I know there are logistical issues as not every car has a camera (and data), but most folks do. Probably a subject of a different thread.

ShakeNBake

After having been a AI for 5+ years, I tend to agree with this. We need to upgrade the model we use for intermediate and advanced students - not just for safety reason, but there are more tools available that can be really effective if used by well trained coaches.


But, to the OP's question. The best instructors IMO are those who actually want to instruct and teach, and can make it a fun experience for the student. It's a lot of social/interpersonal work that might not be what people find life enriching. I see so many people "want" to instruct, but then spend all of their time complaining about their "idiot" students and the amount of "work" it is. Being an instructor is not a badge of driving competence to be achieved. It's a totally different set of skills to be a good instructor, just like it takes a totally different set of skills to be a master racer. You can be a great driver, but if the student does not learn the right things, or does not have fun then you fail. Same goes for racing, you can be the fastest driver, but if you have a floundering crew, or don't understand race craft you are going to be mid pack at best, or at worst Maldonado.

Der ABT

Birth?

certz

TXE36

Speed of progression is likely not looked at at all as that is all over the map. Some people take years other seem to do in just about a year from starting. Everybody is different.

In PCA, at least in TX, it is appropriate to start asking once you have reached the top non-instructor run group which is White. In fact, the only technical difference between the instructor group (Red) and White is the fact they the driver's are instructors - the actual driving skills required to be qualified for White and Red are exactly the same. PCA's instructor training has virtually nothing about driving in it - it focuses on the social interaction between instructor and student. How to connect with a student and keep them safe.

A key factor in evaluating anyone for instructor potential is their judgement - as there is a lot of responsibility that goes with the position.

With that YMMV with different groups and standards can be all over the map. I actually turned down my first opportunities to instruct because I wasn't ready for the right seat but they were comfortable enough to have me. One thing nice about the PCA credentials around here is they seem to be good for everybody - the reverse is not true.

All that said,I love instructing and, without a doubt, it has made me a better driver. I haven't even had a car at the last three events I attended and I still had a good time. I can assure you that I am not a master Formula 1 racer - hell I can't keep up with a good portion of the red run group, but I have fun, my students have fun, and my students come back :-).

-Mike

CosmosMpower

Not sure about nationally but there are some really scary BMWCCA instructors locally that have gone through their ITS program. I instructed their last HPDE at MSR and the head instructor was doing 1:30+ laps driving all over the track missing apexes by 5-6 feet with a train of cars behind them with no points, I thought I accidentally went out in green group. I think in car live right seat instruction is important, nothing replaces immediate feedback and being able to implement something you missed on the very next lap but I agree it's scary in some of these high HP cars these days. Luckily in my experience most people that own these cars and are in blue/green don't want to take their car home on a trailer and are usually pretty careful.

Frank 993 C4S

wildcat077

Most of my longtime DE buddies are now PCA instructors, sometimes i wish i had continued with the PCA program to get the extra track time and instructor
discount but with the racing schedule and car preparation i just wouldn't have the time to dedicate myself 100% , perhaps in the future...

Have to say i do admire the courage and patience of our local instructors, as most new students now show up with very powerful cars and without the
full array of driver aids , some would be driving way over their heads and it would be pretty scary whenever they became signed off solo !

John Mclane

I agree with that. I had instructors that used to race semi-professionally, that could even be fast drivers but god awful teachers.

They wouldn't mumble a word during the track time (which is a matter of style and noise, I understand that) but afterwards they didn't bother to go over things or answer questions. My first DE, this so called instructor solo (yellow group) me at the end of the 3rd session.

The next Event the instructor went over ONE lap with me on my second DE and said I was fine to go by myself. I told him I'm not confident on being there by myself but he wouldn't budge. I had to drop him off so he could have his car ready for his session. That day I searched for other instructors available and there was no one. I then went home, feeling very cheated as I paid for that DE.

On another track (fast one where people frequently crash), the instructor was dealing with 3 students in different groups/days. So there was little to no feedback after the session as the guy had to hurry to the next one. That one too solo me at the end of the 3rd session.

My wife in the other hand, had aggressive drivers as instructors that were participative in her learning. Simple things like break late, break early, hit the gas here and so on. Coincidentally all female drivers. I asked the last one to come with me and it was night and day. Pity was a single session, which gave me a glimpse on how bad some experiences can be.

They are volunteers, I understand, but the PCA standards are not high in PRACTICE and the feedback is not anonymous. All look very cute on paper, people may say whatever they want about it, doesn't change what I went through even after voicing my issues multiple times. By the way, not the only person in multiple events. Unprepared instructors will generate unprepared drivers. That was one of the reasons I paid to learn to go properly around the track. A paid coach will teach you as their business is based on outside feedback. And as you pay, you will want value for your money.

Some people at PCA suggested the additional option to have a day coach, that will be there only for you, going over things in and out of track. That would be a paid extra, with different background than the usual instructor. I'm not entirely sold on that, as the problems may still happen, just under different label.

ExMB

^

First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry you had an instructor that wouldn't give you further help upon your request. I've never encountered that in the regions I instruct. (Disclaimer: I have missed a students session - walking up to the student (after their request), they entered their car, waved and drove off - . Afterwards they questioned why I wasn't available til they remembered their wave-off - oops)

If you have an organization overload an instructor with students you shouldn't blame the instructor. They are doing their best as a volunteer to satisfy all of their students. You should go to the organization's CDI and express your expectations.

Again, instructors are volunteers. There are instructors that will help to get you started and then there are advanced instructors for more in depth instructions. I read your post as you wanting professional coaching at a fraction of the cost. Maybe I'm reading it wrong here. Did you have video/data set up in your car for your instructor to analyze with you? What makes you think the instructor would be familiar with it? Do you expect your instructor to provide it?

In addition while you mention PCA in passing you didn't identify the organizations that didn't meet with your expectations.

P.S.
Not all organizations provide free track time to instructors. Some regions are too small and barely make it hosting an event so they count on instructor volunteers as well.