rbahr

Hi All,

Just got back from some fun at LCMT and it occurred to me that these cars can be FAST :-).

The question is how fast does one get BEFORE going a full cage route? Let's use some east coast tracks that can be fast: At WGI if you are running 2:05's or less should you be considering a cage, is the number 2:07 or 2:00?

What about LCMT is it 2:00, or 2:55 or 2:50?

At these times you are likely seeing 140 or 150 mph or carrying a LOT of speed in the corners. That can hurt if the guy in front of you drops oil or coolant - I caught it in time at LCMT in the back stretch this weekend - a 996 GT3 as you would expect, or you loose a tire...

Now this question is NOT about speed limits and I want to keep it that way, but am interested in the discussion!

Ray

Matt Romanowski

NHRA works like that. I'm not sure it is applicable in road racing.

I would say it's about personal decisions and how hard you feel you are driving. And how many wrecked cars you've seen.

Thundermoose

If you're worried at about it, then it's time for a car with full cage.

Veloce Raptor

+2 on Matt's and Thunder's posts

LuigiVampa

You say it isn't about speed but lower times are generally and indicator of speed (plus being smooth).

My experience:

When I wanted to go racing I would pull instructors with racing experience into my car to get their opinion on if I was ready and what I could do to improve. At the time my car was a half-caged 944 turbo.

After a session where I went pretty quick at this small little auto-cross type track the instructor got out and said to me, "You have the speed and the car control to go racing. You should also never drive this car on track again until you get a full cage."

A 2:05, which is what I do in my Cayman at WGI, is hauling it. I'd be pretty concerned if I was doing that without a full cage.

To me, if you are asking the question, you probably need the cage.

David993S

It doesn't matter if it's racing, a track day, or a DE - things can go wrong in an instant. Given your question, it sounds like you want some level of safety equipment. If your concerned, be safe and add whatever safety equipment that makes you feel comfortable. No one will look down on you for having a roll bar, or a full cage, 6-pt harnesses, HANS, drivers suit, etc. It's the best place to spend money before any "go fast" modifications.

Steve113

what they all said ^^^

I see a unfortunately a lot of DE accidents . Most are driver error from experienced drivers . A cage is never a bad thing unless its a car you drive on the street as well.

ProCoach

Blue Chip

I started with a 997 cab. Pretty much stock.

Added suspension. Got a bit quicker.

Moved through the ranks to highest run groups.

More track days... got quicker.

Went to R-comps. Got quicker.

Took a couple of instructors with me looking for feedback. First one: You know you're driving this car at the limits right? You're consistently at the limits of the tires. Second one: Decide what you want to do - but do it quickly. Either way - it's not safe for you to be tracking this car at these speeds. You need to think about safety now.

Bought dedicated track car with bar, harness, seats, etc... never looked back.

rbahr

So, I have a half cage in my GT3, I wear a Hans, seats, belts. Was thinking about this as I was chasing some newer GT3s and GT3RS's. I was working a lot harder than them... Then I started thinking 'hey, I want to try Hoosiers'...

I am also not really wanting to turn the GT3 into a track car - to much intrinsic value, BUT the speed is indeed seductive...

That said, this was some food for thought this weekend, I got in my students brand new GT3RS and found myself @ 125mph, not driving it hard, no belts, no Hans, now even track tires, telling him that this car was way to fast esp without some real experience... I tell ALL my new students in a new GT3RS or equiv, that if they want to be serious about this, then they need to start slow...

Ray

911 Rod

What car are you driving? How many track days have you done?
With a full cage you cannot drive it on the street and will need a trailer.

rbahr

I have a 2004 GT3, half cage, seats, belts, I use a Hans, been on the track for quite some time probably 100's of days, I instruct with PCA, BMW, and a couple of others. I trailer, lots of 'tasteful' mods... It is already mostly a track car - little to no street driving.

Ray

DHI

I hear you, Brother !
It's like an arms race.
The new machines are formidable. Amazing bounds of performance over the last couple of years, I find.

By the sounds of what people are reporting about your performance on track, it's rather surprising that you are not already on Hoosiers..
If you're not on Hoosiers or BFGs R1S's yet... then YES... time to step up.

Nice meeting you however briefly we did.

Best!
-David

rbahr

I am on the bfg's. I have been wondering how much is left on the table. That said, If I up that and get another second or two, the problem gets a bit wors.

It was a lot of fun meeting y'all :-)

Ray

hf1

Speed is important but what's more important is whether you're straddling (driving at) the grip limit most of the time. If you are, then you need a full cage and halo seats. The need for this compounds if you're driving a fast, high-HP car (such as your GT3) at the limit. Along the same logic, the fun doesn't come from speed but from driving at the limit, comfortably and without fear, and you don't need major HP or tires/grip for the latter.