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I guess this is one major situation on the track that I've always been hypersensitive to. Not letting the faster car pass with room creates an unsafe situation for everyone.
And I will counter, as a competition instructor for Skip Barber and CI for hundreds of racing schools for the last thirty years, that this is one major situation that people STILL DON'T GET.
The primary responsibility for completing a safe pass is on the overtaking driver. Anything else is woulda/coulda/shoulda.
Sure, in retrospect, the Boxster might have been able to see/process/decide and execute a "bail" strategy, due to the erratic behavior of the Mustang and a sliver of time to react, but I have gone into Turn 1 at VIR THOUSANDS of times side-by-side in exactly the same circumstances, without the overtaking car cutting back over and compromising me.
I've been the overtaking car thousands of times and I wouldn't move over, without being DAMN SURE there was NO overlap.
It's easy in hindsight. The addition of the yellow flag condition at the Turn 1 worker station places the onus on the Mustang to do the right thing. Which they did not, they compounded that error (being surprised by the flag, if that truly was the case, which I doubt. I think they missed it).
If they DID see it, they compounded the error by "racing" to the flag, with consequences for the Boxster driver.
Overall, a competition driver's responsibility is, bottom line, to AVOID contact. For those who want to loop or share that on both, it's important to remember that there is no incident without a passing car...
__________________ -Peter Krause www.peterkrause.net www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
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Not a racer, but I'm curious too. Gut feeling is low margin move on the part of the Mustang and he should have left room - he basically cut the camera car off while standing on the brakes.
Was there contact? It looks like the sharp right by the camera car was due to high braking effort and dropping two wheels off the left side - it basically skid steered right.
I'm friends with the Boxster driver. I guess I am in the minority. I think my friend should've given the Mustang more room. I always give more room to faster cars passing late, especially while going into a hard braking zone.
Personally, I would've let off the gas earlier, and started braking earlier. It was a qualifying session and the car passing wasn't even in class. Just wasn't worth the risk.
Last edited by Prelude Guy; 09-17-2020 at 12:11 AM.
The mustang had no business jumping over to the left after making the inside pass heading into T1 essentially taking the track away from the Boxster. It looked like no contact but the Boxster locked up the binders and went for a spin trying to avoid the mustang that slammed the door shut.
Assuming this was a quali session where everyone is dead set on staying in the throttle... it looked to me like the mustang got spooked by the standing yellow flag at T1 and jumped on the binders trying to 'tuck in' but hopefully not intentionally cutting it that close. Really unfortunate.
If this was a practice session... I would have backed out expecting the mustang to dive bomb inside and potentially lose control. The extra space may have prevented the spin.
The Mustang driver all the way. You have to leave racing room. The Mustang driver did not do this. You can't just brake and move left like that unexpectedly.
Having said that, I am not going to let a guy I don't know and trust do that to me. I am going to back off just a bit to allow him to screw up without taking me out in the process.
Mustang 100% for sure. But........... Like Scott says, there was time as the Mustang started to drift over to the left that the box driver could have let it breath a bit, especially in a mixed class group where you may not know all of the drivers. Bad move on the mustang drivers part no doubt, but better to give it up rather than end up bent. Not worth on insisting on keeping my line, just not worth it.
My vote is Mustang's fault. If you can't make an offline pass then you probably shouldn't be making the pass.
I hate people that need to jump back on line and then slam on the brakes to make a corner.
Agree. Me too!
Originally Posted by Prelude Guy
I'm friends with the Boxster driver. I guess I am in the minority. I think my friend should've given the Mustang more room. I always give more room to faster cars passing late, especially while going into a hard braking zone. Personally, I would've let off the gas earlier, and started braking earlier. It was a qualifying session and the car passing wasn't even in class. Just wasn't worth the risk.
Agree on this as well as there was an opportunity to let off the gas earlier and not get squeezed but nevertheless the Mustang should have held his line.
Originally Posted by RJFabCab
The mustang had no business jumping over to the left after making the inside pass heading into T1 essentially taking the track away from the Boxster. It looked like no contact but the Boxster locked up the binders and went for a spin trying to avoid the mustang that slammed the door shut.
Assuming this was a quali session where everyone is dead set on staying in the throttle... it looked to me like the mustang got spooked by the standing yellow flag at T1 and jumped on the binders trying to 'tuck in' but hopefully not intentionally cutting it that close. Really unfortunate.
If this was a practice session... I would have backed out expecting the mustang to dive bomb inside and potentially lose control. The extra space may have prevented the spin.
Hope the Boxster driver is A.O.K.
Agree on all accounts. Good point about the yellow in T1. I bet the Boxster driver didn't see it either otherwise he would have backed off.
Originally Posted by winders
The Mustang driver all the way. You have to leave racing room. The Mustang driver did not do this. You can't just brake and move left like that unexpectedly.
Having said that, I am not going to let a guy I don't know and trust do that to me. I am going to back off just a bit to allow him to screw up without taking me out in the process.
Originally Posted by cienegavista
Mustang 100% for sure. But........... Like Scott says, there was time as the Mustang started to drift over to the left that the box driver could have let it breath a bit, especially in a mixed class group where you may not know all of the drivers. Bad move on the mustang drivers part no doubt, but better to give it up rather than end up bent. Not worth on insisting on keeping my line, just not worth it.
I agree with you both on this one. I would have backed off as well but it's still the Mustang's fault.
Last edited by Frank 993 C4S; 09-17-2020 at 08:10 AM.
As others have said, stupid move on Mustang's part cutting back over. And if I'd been in the camera car, I'd have wanted to lift sooner as a hedge to take care of my own ***.
What others have said but beyond that who pulls this kind of crap in qualifying?? Looked like the Boxster driver impacted the flag station barriers. Frightening.
The Mustang driver all the way. You have to leave racing room. The Mustang driver did not do this. You can't just brake and move left like that unexpectedly.
Having said that, I am not going to let a guy I don't know and trust do that to me. I am going to back off just a bit to allow him to screw up without taking me out in the process.
09-16-2020, 10:27 PM
Incident at VIR: Who's at fault?
