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I recently purchased a 981 gt4 in the Sacramento area and left the car there so i could fly back to do a track day or two. Would you rank the "must drives" in order of Laguna, Sonoma, Thunderhill? Since i want to drive the car around a bit out there are there other tracks to consider? And are some of the HPDE organizations better than others?
Sonoma is the most technical track and my favorite. Thunderhill is my second favorite track and probably the best place to start as it has a variety of corners and has the most runoff. Laguna is fun too but not as good as Sonoma or Thunderhill. It is the most famous track in the the area and is certainly a great track. These are the only tracks in Northern California. Buttonwillow is also a fun track but is in the south end of Central California.
Sonoma is the most technical track and my favorite. Thunderhill is my second favorite track and probably the best place to start as it has a variety of corners and has the most runoff. Laguna is fun too but not as good as Sonoma or Thunderhill. It is the most famous track in the the area and is certainly a great track. These are the only tracks in Northern California. Buttonwillow is also a fun track but is in the south end of Central California.
Most of my experience is at Road America although it's not terribly technical. Some at Blackhawk Farms. A lot at BIR but it's been awhile. The prior owner of my car recommended TH due to the nice runoff and LS because it's LS and kinda discouraged Sonoma as it's not very forgiving. BW never came up and I'd probably avoid it to limit my driving to the nicer parts of the state. To me, LS is a must do just because it's one of those special opportunities.
Don't discount Sonoma. It is far more interesting than Laguna Seca. But so is Thunderhill. Sonoma is probably the most technical track in the USA. It has great history too and is really underrated. Thunderhill is the safest from a runoff perspective. But, if you have experience and drive within your skills, all three tracks are just fine.
Nicer parts of the state? Well, if rural areas bother you you should stick to Sonoma and Laguna.....
Don't discount Sonoma. It is far more interesting than Laguna Seca. But so is Thunderhill. Sonoma is probably the most technical track in the USA. It has great history too and is really underrated. Thunderhill is the safest from a runoff perspective. But, if you have experience and drive within your skills, all three tracks are just fine.
Nicer parts of the state? Well, if rural areas bother you you should stick to Sonoma and Laguna.....
You can't frequent BIR, RA, or Blackhawk without some time in rural areas. I live in a rural area and I've driven thru grapevine and was not impressed. I may stand corrected as Buttonwillow looks to be a more interesting area.
I'd recommend Laguna -> Sonoma -> Thunderhill if you could only do them once. If you're leaving the car up here in Nor Cal then you're going to end up doing all 3 repeatedly depending on how your schedule lines up with events.
I wouldn't avoid tracks because of lack of runoff assuming you're a reasonable person and doing track days with instruction (even with a bunch of days somewhere else it helps if it's a new track).
When I did my Bucket list trip in 2014, I ran LS, Sears Point and Thunderhill, along with Button Willow and Willow Springs. I would rate Sears Point as my #1 track, with Thunderhill and LS tied for 2nd. LS was really sort of a disappointment as I think I got my hopes to high. Sears Point rocks but if you don't like walls then you won't like Sears Point.
I think at first glance, Laguna Seca might seem like a disappointment...but I also think that the fun and challenge of Laguna Seca is going fast there. ANYONE can run a 1:50 or high 1:40s there. But it takes significantly more skill to get into the lower 40s and high 30s there. That's where the fun lies.
Aside: Nice to see a post by Mike/fleadh... hope all is well Mike.
In a car that is new to you, and given that the car is in SAC, I can recommend starting with Thunderhill. It is more "wide open" like RA, and only about an hour or so north of Sac. You can get dialed in to your new buggy. And if you'd like I can connect you with a tech at the Sac Porsche dealer that is a PCA tech committee resource and I think works with some Sac area water pumper track enthusiasts.
BUT, (and to quote Skip Barber its a big "BUT"), Thunderhill can be wicked hot, starting about NOW. So take that into account. Often it is best at Thill to plan on getting your work done early-- say before 2 or 3 PM.
Don't forget about sound restrictions at most events at LS. Can help you better understand this off-line.
Winders is right, Sears Point is the cat's pajamas. I remember driving there with Speed SF on the day of the big eclipse... there was a guy in a GT4 that I met that morning... he had a handful of days in at LS but only 1-3 at Sears Point. He lost his GT4 in session 2 on the high side of turn 9. I also remember when JvO had an F50 turn left hard out of turn 6-- ended up breaking his foot.
And I remember when a fellow Norcal racer got target fixation in the esses and put his left side off and came across and wound up upside down... still have that in car video somewhere.
But Sears Point is the cat's pajamas.
The biggest factor of course in all of this is which group and when.
What I most strongly recommend is that you pick your group with most care when you decide to experience any of these tracks for the first time. For Porsches, there is no better "home base" out here than a PCA Golden Gate (GGR) or maybe Diablo region event. I can help ensure you get fixed up with the best instructor for YOU in either or both.
HOD can be good-- I have known the owner founder of that group since before HOD began. Same for Trackmasters and NCRC and pretty much all others. I can give you some perhaps helpful info on all of them.
And I am in an extensive network and get pinged for invite-only private events frequently.
If you really want to get dialed in here in Norcal, I am happy to help offline. I have met two Rennlisters in the past few years on this type of topic... one is Morsini, and the other is white924s. Both have become friends. The latter, it turns out is an alumn of the same college, as is his wife. I got to personally instruct white924s at his first LS event. We had fun. Great driver and enthusiast.
Those threads are still in here somewhere.
Quick background:
Started track driving (no prior experience) in early 1988 at LRP.
Drove one event at Blackhawk Farms... circa 1990.
Been in Norcal since 1991. Started racing in 1997. Became a PCA-GGR instructor before the current national PCA program began, and became certified with the current program with a bunch of my fellow GGR instructors in pouring rain in our tow vehicles at Thunderhill (it was a kind of rubber stamp deal). Raced in several paid spectator events at LS including RR IV. Best student ever is wife that got TTOD at a PCA time trial (not sure any other woman has ever achieved that).
Good comments here. Only thing I'll add is that Sonoma and Thunderhill have multiple layouts, so check to see what the group is running. I prefer the traditional layout at Sonoma, which includes the Carousel and the fast turn 10 approach from the esses. I'm not a big fan of the Thunderhill 2-mile West configuration.
Not in a 5000 pound car with bicycle tires and a one cylinder one BHP engine.
Well okay, qualify it.
Well, since this is Rennlist, "anyone" just means someone with a fairly modern Porsche. I was using it in the context of the OP and some of the people commenting. Someone who has track experience at other tracks and a more than capable car.
But if someone rolls up in a GT4, runs a 1:49 PB, and then complains Laguna is "boring", I think they need to do some introspection and realize that Laguna is not a boring track if you actually know what you're doing and are trying to improve with a few seconds left on the table, IMO. It's no Sonoma, but I think many people could argue that Thunderhill East is significantly more boring depending on the way you look at it.
But if someone rolls up in a GT4, runs a 1:49 PB, and then complains Laguna is "boring", I think they need to do some introspection and realize that Laguna is not a boring track if you actually know what you're doing and are trying to improve with a few seconds left on the table, IMO. It's no Sonoma, but I think many people could argue that Thunderhill East is significantly more boring depending on the way you look at it.
As someone that has done a low 31 at Laguna in a air-cooled 911 GT3 race car, I can say that Laguna Seca is not boring. But, it is not exactly an exciting track either. What Laguna has is history and panache. I like racing there because of its history and it is nice to have a variety of tracks to race on. Plus, it's only 45 minutes from my home. But, Thunderhill East is in no way "boring" compared to Laguna. It has more variety and a much more grippy surface and is much more fun and interesting overall. Plus, it is a safer track if you do make a mistake. Once you get past the "bucket list" nature of Laguna, it just isn't that compelling of a track to race on compared to some others in the area.
The food and lodging choices near Laguna Seca are considered by many "vastly superior" to those near Thunderhill and BTW. Even perhaps Sears Point unless one considers Napa and Sonoma. At least in terms of range of choices.
Everything depends on za details.
Hard to get inta that in dese Forums.
Morsini moved out here in time for RR V and also attended RR VI
white924S and wife arrived in time for RR VI
We all lodged in the same place and had some great times! Partee!
Racing in front of a huge crowd at Laguna Seca is fun! Forming up in the CS whilst the flashes go off is kinda cool. Driving around the paddock... basically
okay since the car is loud and they tend to get outta the way.
06-01-2021, 03:16 PM
Northern Cal tracks
