drcollie

PCA DE School yesterday, from one of my pals who was instructing at Summit Point with Founder's Region this weekend. I was considering instructing for the event, but then decided I didn't want to get back into it. The cars are really fast now, the wrecks big, and its very easy to get hurt. At the end of the day, these are street cars not designed for big impacts at speed. So here's the takeaway for you guys that like to do DE events and I'm glad that no one had to go to the hospital. FYI this is very common, to panic when two wheels go off. Knowing what to do when that happens is the difference from having a dusty car vs a wrecked car.

1) Be sure to buy track insurance unless you can afford to write-off your car.
2) When you have an Instructor in the car with you, realize you are responsible for their life and well-being, maybe dial it back a little and keep a safety margin.
3) These incidents DO happen but are rarely made public, It's the dirty little secret of DE events, you won't read about them in the Chapter newsletters.

"Sadly, we lost a White GT4 here yesterday. Last session for the white group (experienced drivers, most are solo, but this one had an instructor). The driver dropped 2 wheels off on the exit and panicked. Then, spun to the inside and went front first into a concrete wall. Airbags deployed and neither person was hurt. The car spun around and the backed into the wall with enough force to move it. It was very hot yesterday (and worse today). I will bet that fatigue, heat, and dehydration all were a factor".

Be careful out there. Have fun and bring you and your car home in one piece. Remember there are no trophies or prize money at DE Schools.

- Duane C < Instructor from 1996 to 2014, retired.

Bluehighways

When I got my SCCA Road Racing License they made it very clear to the class that it would not be "If" or even a "When" you would have an "Incident" (a nice euphemism for wreck), it was "How Often." From personal experience this was a very accurate admonition! These 911's are just as quick as the competition cars I've driven. Competition cars were required to have: Full Six or Eight Point Welded Roll Cages, Window Nets, Six Point Seat Belts, Fuel Cells, External Electrical Cut-Off Switches and Integral Fire Suppression Systems. As the Driver you were required to wear, Full multi-layer Nomex clothing (everything but your eyes), Eye Protection and a current SNELL Helmet. Without the proper safety gear I'd not take my 911 out on a track to "explore" its limits and I sure as H*LL would never, ever, agree to be a passenger in someone else's car.
.

Daddeo

So are you saying we shouldn't do DE and only drive on the streets? Or are you saying one should manage the risk - as with everything else in life?

detansinn

The level of performance, that you can just walk into a dealer and buy, is insane right now.

You learn a lot more driving the slower stuff before climbing into a 600-700HP monster.

ipse dixit

At every HPDE, the driver's meeting should begin with this video.

drcollie

I didn't say that at all. Please re-read the points. They are not radical, but knowledgeable and from experience.

I was crashed out by a student in 2002 at Summit Point in a BMW 325i who put two wheels off, panicked and shot us into the tree line where the car was embedded so hard into the trees that the wrecker had to pull it out (it was totaled). Because it hit the trees on my side of the car (as Instructor) it broke three of my ribs, so my day at the track as over at 10 a.m. (as was the students) and that hurt for about 6 weeks afterwards. My wife was not pleased when i came gimping into the house and told her what occurred. And that was a 165 hp car with about a 40 mph impact into the trees.

My point is this - once you are signed off and can ride solo, if you want to ball up your expensive car into the Armco, go right ahead. If you have in Instructor in the car, just be mindful of the fact you have another person in the car who is depending on you to not do something stupid in your driving. And buy track insurance for the event for your car, your regular auto policy won't cover a loss that occurs on the grounds of a racing facility.

Jaye Bass

Manage Risk? Current events have shown most folks don't know what you are talking about.

CodyBigdog

RE: “FYI this is very common, to panic when two wheels go off. Knowing what to do when that happens is the difference from having a dusty car vs a wrecked car.”

As a newbie interested in one day tracking my car (I still need to go to DE training), I would be interested to hear more about these two examples you cited, as to what you felt that each of the drivers did wrong that: (1) Caused them to go off the track and (2) once they had “two wheels off”, what the did wrong/ should have done?

Are crashes into barriers, or with other DE drivers are common thing (ie, one, or more per event)...and I assume the frequency of crashes depends on the level of the DE?

Thx.

Mozella55

I'll second what Bluehighways said. Back in the day I did quite a bit of SCCA road racing in a class which was pretty far down the food chain with performance capabilities well below a current 917 or 911. It had a roll cage, fuel cell, I wore a fancy fireproof suit, had a really good helmet, etc. etc. etc. Still, there was a very real risk of getting hurt and at least some chance of getting killed. That's part of racing.
I used to participate in track days (in my race car) strictly as an opportunity to do tuning and testing and I saw quite a few guys wreck their very nice street cars and some were total write offs. And, once in a while somebody would wreck their race car in a race, including me. I'm happy to say my wrecks were all reparable but occasionally somebody would write off a race car. It's part of the deal.

Contrary to some previous posts, I don't think any of these wrecks were the result of anyone doing something "stupid" and I never met anyone who went into "panic" mode. Every wreck I saw (or was part of) was the result of driving on the limit and then making a mistake in judgement; often a very small error in judgement. If you're going to win a race or if you're going to go as fast as possible on a track day, you will be driving at or very close to the limit. Going slightly over that limit may result in a crash, but at least in a race car the rules require you to take steps to minimize the chance of personal injury and that includes both lots of safety equipment and the rather complicated process of obtaining your racing license.

But taking a street car to a track day may involve nothing more than a certain number of rides with an instructor and then pretty soon you're allowed to drive by yourself perhaps with a restriction against passing unless waved by. But, usually, there is nothing to prevent you from barreling into turn one at 900 miles per hour and suffering the consequences. And you don't have to be stupid to crash nor do you have to panic either. In other words, telling yourself "Well I'm not stupid and I'm pretty sure I don't panic when under pressure" isn't necessarily going to save you from hurting yourself.

Bottom line: When a racing driver says, "I don't do track days or DE events because they're too dangerous", I get it. I used to make my living as a Navy Fighter Pilot flying combat missions over North Viet Nam, but I don't ride with civilian pilots in small aircraft because (as far as I'm concerned) it's too dangerous.

So, especially if you're driving a modern high performance street car, don't tell yourself, "Well, it's only a DE course, not real racing, so I'm not worried."

Smart people crash too and these days our cars go plenty fast enough to hurt you.

Y'all be careful out there...................ya' hear?

drcollie

Surely. "Two wheels off" is caused by failure to make the corner, usually the result of too much entry speed. The car has exceeded the ability of the tires to keep it on the blacktop and drifts off the pavement to the outside corner in most cases. There is saying to remember, either on street or track driving it applies equally. "Slow In - Fast Out". What that means is get your car slowed down before you make the first turn input and then accelerate through the corner on track out. Do your stopping in a straight line - THEN turn in and apply throttle, Do that and you will rarely drop two wheels off.

When two wheels go off, inexperienced drivers panic because there is a lot of noise, dirt and gravel hitting the underside of the car combined with a lurch of the vehicle. What novices do is then jerk the wheel to get the car back on the track which is absolutely the wrong thing to do. When you go off, stay off and get the car slowed down - a lot. Then you can safely come back onto the blacktop. When the car is jerked back to the road, the tires will hook up but will be at an angle to the track and the car will go launching to the opposite side of the track in an uncontrollable skid. This is where you get the big wrecks into the Armco or tree lines, or roll the car.

We cover this in the driver meetings ahead of time, but everyone is all amped up to get on the track and many don't listen well, anxious to get out there and get going. In days gone by, we Instructors could reach over and yank the emergency brake handle if we saw the student about to go back to the track after an off, and that spins the car. But modern cars with electronic parking brakes don't work the same. So the rule of thumb to remember is once you are off track, stay off. Stop or get slowed enough to regain control.

As to barrier crashes, it happens, but not with any frequency you can really nail down. You can go to a dozen events and see none, then the next one there are three cars that hit something and get damaged. The smart way to go to the track is buy a dedicated race car like an old Miata. Bang it up, you have maybe $ 8K into it. Take your $ 150K Porsche and put it upside down you're going to be real unhappy, or blow the engine and you're dealing with a repair in the tens of thousands of dollars. If you just want to go out aa few times a year in your street car, dial it back and leave yourself a safety margin is not a bad idea. Most incidents happen when a driver is trying to go 10/10th's, full out.

ExMB

Every event I've ever been to this is what seems to happen. Every driver's meeting warns about this; last session of the day. Tired, over confident, etc, etc, . More stuff happens at that time than any other time during the event.

thuggo

You outlined all the reasons I got rid of my GT3 and bought a Clubsport.....for when the eventual happens....I'm gonna feel a lot more protected in that sucker than in a street car. Was at a event this past Friday at Road Atlanta, and no major wrecks. More than a few spins/offs, and one blown miata engine that thankfully he got off the racing line very quickly. But overall a good non crashy event.

911ted

At around 100 track days, you prepare as best you can for the inevitable to occur through NO fault of your own.
That's racing.
Preparation and situational awareness creates luck

Papamurphdog

I was also at Road Atlanta this weekend; nothing major but a few mechanicals. That said, while hot, it was still only in the 80's, so not too bad. But still drinking tons of fluids, sweating profusely (anyone know how to wring-out a helmet?), and after the second session on day 2, you start feeling your muscles, and you realize you are needing to concentrate harder to stay focused -- fatigue is setting in. Small mistakes can happen, and you can still catch them. If you look at all the strings on this subject. most are "in the last session of the weekend" category. Solution? Take it a little easy in the last session!!! Use the last session to focus on "smooth" and hitting your marks and don't worry about "quick" so much. I was running hard all weekend and having a blast, then, in Session 4 I was starting to feel it... then I slightly missed the first apex in the esses, which really screwed up the second apex and my entry to 5, but was able to saved it on the rumble strip, then after hitting 6 and 7 properly, I consciously collected myself on the back-stretch and took a breath to shake off the mistakes (it is NO FUN to miss the first apex in the esses flat in 5th). I drove it hard to the start/finish and thought, "its been a great weekend, let's back off a little, make a couple of smooth laps at 85% to nail my marks, and call it a mission accomplished. Which I did, super smooth, then parked it early. Moral to the story? In snow skiing, "the last run of the day" is where most injuries happen, no matter how fit you are. I believe the same is true for HPDE. Once I parked it, I realized how spent I was from 250 track miles at more or less 95% effort, except for those last two laps. There was a 5th session. I sat it out. Smartest thing I did all weekend. Instructors should all teach to run the last session at 85-90% or so, even if you are pointing-by others. Retain what you learned, memorize your marks, then park it. My My two cents worth.

drcollie

So true. I know that as an Instructor, after about ten years of doing it, I skipped the last sessions of the day as I was wrung out riding right seats and didn't need to ball up my own car out there on the last run.

I never had a spin or off in 18 years, but did blow the engine on a money shift at VIR T10 (Oak Tree) in my 1996 993C4S when it was relatively new. That engine grenaded so badly there were no useable parts left on it. That was a VERY expensive day at the track, ever priced a new Porsche long block replacement? My wife was seriously unhappy, there went her European vacation money and then some.

Most fun now I have at the track is renting Formula cars from Bertil Roos. So much fun to drive, blow the engine? Hey, they have a spare car for you....no extra charge.