This is why I *still* instruct at DE
07-09-2021, 11:37 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
This is why I *still* instruct at DE
Apropos to that other thread, this week I had “that student” who makes right seat instructing so very rewarding.
He was a wonderful novice student, with PCA family members also driving at the event. In the interview he told me his goal is to learn skills towards having a life long hobby (how scary sane is that?!) He had talent and every session improved his skills, increasingly recognized his mistakes, and concentrated on hitting his marks. He figured out decent enough heel toe and even started to trail brake. And by the end of the event, he wasn't perfect but was moving quickly and safely.
And I rewarded him with something I’ve never done in almost 15 years instructing—I let him solo for one session before promoting him to our next higher instructed group after what was essentially his first event. A second instructor rode with him as well and concurred that he deserved the yellow promotion.
Our region ran 6 (!!) driving sessions daily (shameless plug for Metro NY region events) and despite the 90+ degree heat, i enjoyed every minute in the right seat. And hopefully, I helped him start that life long hobby. Truth be told, I feel like I benefited even more from the experience than he.
At our next event I’ll likely be mentoring one or two national training candidates. Can’t wait to share my refreshed enthusiasm.
He was a wonderful novice student, with PCA family members also driving at the event. In the interview he told me his goal is to learn skills towards having a life long hobby (how scary sane is that?!) He had talent and every session improved his skills, increasingly recognized his mistakes, and concentrated on hitting his marks. He figured out decent enough heel toe and even started to trail brake. And by the end of the event, he wasn't perfect but was moving quickly and safely.
And I rewarded him with something I’ve never done in almost 15 years instructing—I let him solo for one session before promoting him to our next higher instructed group after what was essentially his first event. A second instructor rode with him as well and concurred that he deserved the yellow promotion.
Our region ran 6 (!!) driving sessions daily (shameless plug for Metro NY region events) and despite the 90+ degree heat, i enjoyed every minute in the right seat. And hopefully, I helped him start that life long hobby. Truth be told, I feel like I benefited even more from the experience than he.
At our next event I’ll likely be mentoring one or two national training candidates. Can’t wait to share my refreshed enthusiasm.
Last edited by mhm993; 07-09-2021 at 06:01 PM.
The following 17 users liked this post by mhm993:
ABNJOE (07-15-2021),
bbinder (07-11-2021),
hsb1001 (07-13-2021),
linderpat (07-14-2021),
Mike Murphy (07-14-2021),
and 12 others liked this post.
07-09-2021, 01:16 PM
#3
It is always so much fun to have a student like that. On the other hand, it is also very satisfying to work with someone who doesn't have the natural talent, but has the right attitude and is very trainable. While it is a lot more work, tougher students can be very satisfying too if you can get them to see the light like taming that "floor it everywhere guy with the 700HP V8" to the point where he sets up a turn just right and you can instruct "Now you can stand on it!!!"
Being there for the lightbulbs lighting up is very worth it. With some luck, sometimes so many light up that you gotta' wear shades
.
Being there for the lightbulbs lighting up is very worth it. With some luck, sometimes so many light up that you gotta' wear shades
.
The following users liked this post:
mhm993 (07-09-2021)
07-09-2021, 01:25 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
It is always so much fun to have a student like that. On the other hand, it is also very satisfying to work with someone who doesn't have the natural talent, but has the right attitude and is very trainable. While it is a lot more work, tougher students can be very satisfying too if you can get them to see the light like taming that "floor it everywhere guy with the 700HP V8" to the point where he sets up a turn just right and you can instruct "Now you can stand on it!!!"
Being there for the lightbulbs lighting up is very worth it. With some luck, sometimes so many light up that you gotta' wear shades.
Being there for the lightbulbs lighting up is very worth it. With some luck, sometimes so many light up that you gotta' wear shades
.
07-09-2021, 01:51 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Agree. I came up through the ranks as DE student and owe much to the volunteer instructors who helped me. Giving back the other way as I advanced seemed like a no-brainer. There are so many "dangerous" things that I do like skiing and mountain biking on my own, if I really felt that scared with a student I would get out of the car and let the organizers know I won't be instructing that person.
07-09-2021, 01:57 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
I stopped around the time my day 1 novice student brought a supercharged Lingenfelter Z06 to the track. No thanks. Glad there are folks out there still doing it and enjoying the rewarding aspects of it though! I wish there were actual limits on the cars beginners could bring, as anti American as that seems.
07-09-2021, 03:51 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
I stopped around the time my day 1 novice student brought a supercharged Lingenfelter Z06 to the track. No thanks. Glad there are folks out there still doing it and enjoying the rewarding aspects of it though! I wish there were actual limits on the cars beginners could bring, as anti American as that seems.
The following 4 users liked this post by Mike Roblin:
Trending Topics
07-09-2021, 10:52 PM
#8
Drifting
I stopped around the time my day 1 novice student brought a supercharged Lingenfelter Z06 to the track. No thanks. Glad there are folks out there still doing it and enjoying the rewarding aspects of it though! I wish there were actual limits on the cars beginners could bring, as anti American as that seems.
I do sorta agree with the banning of some cars from first events though. What is an amateur doing with a Lingenfelter z06? Risking their instructor's life and not learning a thing is most likely what, with the end result of they'd get passed by some instructor driving their Miata. Our chief road race instructor (or one of hte other organizers, i forget) once put one of the 70+ year old instructors in a car like that and jokenly said; "you got that car because you've lived the longest!" With laughs by all. Then after the old instructor left to find his student in the death trap said to us dead seriously; "I really did give him that car because of his age" lol.
The following users liked this post:
Tedster (07-12-2021)
07-09-2021, 11:41 PM
#9
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Connecticut Valley Region
Posts: 14,515
Received 3,377 Likes
on
1,620 Posts
Apropos to that other thread, this week I had “that student” who makes right seat instructing so very rewarding.
He was a wonderful novice student, with PCA family members also driving at the event. In the interview he told me his goal is to learn skills towards having a life long hobby (how scary sane is that?!) He had talent and every session improved his skills, increasingly recognized his mistakes, and concentrated on hitting his marks. He figured out decent enough heel toe and even started to trail brake. And by the end of the event, he wasn't perfect but was moving quickly and safely.
And I rewarded him with something I’ve never done in almost 15 years instructing—I let him solo for one session before promoting him to our next higher instructed group after what was essentially his first event. A second instructor rode with him as well and concurred that he deserved the yellow promotion.
Our region ran 6 (!!) driving sessions daily (shameless plug for Metro NY region events) and despite the 90+ degree heat, i enjoyed every minute in the right seat. And hopefully, I helped him start that life long hobby. Truth be told, I feel like I benefited even more from the experience than he.
At our next event I’ll likely be mentoring one or two national training candidates. Can’t wait to share my refreshed enthusiasm.
He was a wonderful novice student, with PCA family members also driving at the event. In the interview he told me his goal is to learn skills towards having a life long hobby (how scary sane is that?!) He had talent and every session improved his skills, increasingly recognized his mistakes, and concentrated on hitting his marks. He figured out decent enough heel toe and even started to trail brake. And by the end of the event, he wasn't perfect but was moving quickly and safely.
And I rewarded him with something I’ve never done in almost 15 years instructing—I let him solo for one session before promoting him to our next higher instructed group after what was essentially his first event. A second instructor rode with him as well and concurred that he deserved the yellow promotion.
Our region ran 6 (!!) driving sessions daily (shameless plug for Metro NY region events) and despite the 90+ degree heat, i enjoyed every minute in the right seat. And hopefully, I helped him start that life long hobby. Truth be told, I feel like I benefited even more from the experience than he.
At our next event I’ll likely be mentoring one or two national training candidates. Can’t wait to share my refreshed enthusiasm.
I like a good story but are we really saying that just because someone can hit all the marks there is nothing else to learn from an instructor?
07-10-2021, 11:16 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Perhaps you misunderstand.
I let him solo for one out of 12 sessions. After the promotion he’s still full time instructed in the yellow group and still drives with the same peeps, so in a great sense the promotion means nothing. (Lets face it, having two instructed groups is the PCA “appendix”—a useless holdover from when we usually had two students in separate run groups). The promotion from green to yellow is virtually meaningless other than acknowledging his first step forward, and I told him so. And yes, this was the first time in 15 years instructing scores of novices that I did this.
I let him solo for one out of 12 sessions. After the promotion he’s still full time instructed in the yellow group and still drives with the same peeps, so in a great sense the promotion means nothing. (Lets face it, having two instructed groups is the PCA “appendix”—a useless holdover from when we usually had two students in separate run groups). The promotion from green to yellow is virtually meaningless other than acknowledging his first step forward, and I told him so. And yes, this was the first time in 15 years instructing scores of novices that I did this.
Last edited by mhm993; 07-10-2021 at 12:11 PM.
07-10-2021, 11:31 AM
#11
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Connecticut Valley Region
Posts: 14,515
Received 3,377 Likes
on
1,620 Posts
Perhaps you misunderstand.
I let him solo for one out of 12 sessions. After the promotion he’s still full time instructed in the yellow group and still drives with the same peeps, so in a great sense the promotion means nothing. (Lets face it, having two instructed groups is the PCA “appendix”—a useless holdover from when we usually had two students in separate run groups). The promotion from green to yellow is virtually meaningless other than acknowledging his first step forward, and I told him so) . And yes, this was the first time in 15 years instructing scores of novices that I did this.
I let him solo for one out of 12 sessions. After the promotion he’s still full time instructed in the yellow group and still drives with the same peeps, so in a great sense the promotion means nothing. (Lets face it, having two instructed groups is the PCA “appendix”—a useless holdover from when we usually had two students in separate run groups). The promotion from green to yellow is virtually meaningless other than acknowledging his first step forward, and I told him so) . And yes, this was the first time in 15 years instructing scores of novices that I did this.
07-10-2021, 12:27 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I am way more of a hard *** in the passenger seat than to allow any first event driver become permanently uninstructed!
I know of a number of instructors who haven’t a good grip on what to look for before setting an instructed student free—probably a combination of bad judgement and lazy.
I know of a number of instructors who haven’t a good grip on what to look for before setting an instructed student free—probably a combination of bad judgement and lazy.
Last edited by mhm993; 07-10-2021 at 12:32 PM.
07-10-2021, 01:21 PM
#13
Drifting
07-10-2021, 01:57 PM
#14
Rennlist
Basic Site Sponsor
Basic Site Sponsor
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Durham, NC and Virginia International Raceway
Posts: 18,726
Received 2,888 Likes
on
1,695 Posts
Perhaps you misunderstand.
I let him solo for one out of 12 sessions. After the promotion he’s still full time instructed in the yellow group and still drives with the same peeps, so in a great sense the promotion means nothing. (Lets face it, having two instructed groups is the PCA “appendix”—a useless holdover from when we usually had two students in separate run groups). The promotion from green to yellow is virtually meaningless other than acknowledging his first step forward, and I told him so. And yes, this was the first time in 15 years instructing scores of novices that I did this.
I let him solo for one out of 12 sessions. After the promotion he’s still full time instructed in the yellow group and still drives with the same peeps, so in a great sense the promotion means nothing. (Lets face it, having two instructed groups is the PCA “appendix”—a useless holdover from when we usually had two students in separate run groups). The promotion from green to yellow is virtually meaningless other than acknowledging his first step forward, and I told him so. And yes, this was the first time in 15 years instructing scores of novices that I did this.
I know that with the care and attention you pay to your students, it must have been a very special one to have granted them this privilege.
__________________
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
The following users liked this post:
mhm993 (07-10-2021)
07-10-2021, 02:42 PM
#15
A big thing to look for for solos is flag awareness and traffic management. If those two things are problematic, no way should that person be driving solo.
So in addition to the OP's comments on his student, I would assume that the student was seeing all the flags and managing traffic without instructor intervention. This last part is why student experiences like the one described are so rare - sure, a student can show up with innate talent to just drive the car, but having that combined with knowing flag awareness and mirrors/traffic management makes this brass ring ever so elusive in the real world.
Sometimes the student's raw talent works against them soloing. That Corvette guy I mentioned in the other thread was so quick that only about 3 cars managed to catch him all weekend, even as I was running him in higher run groups. I really had no idea, based upon three point-bys, just how good his traffic management was. These three cars slowly caught him. What would he do if someone really pounced on him? In the end, it didn't matter, as the guy had great judgement and attitude and didn't care if he was solo or not.
So in addition to the OP's comments on his student, I would assume that the student was seeing all the flags and managing traffic without instructor intervention. This last part is why student experiences like the one described are so rare - sure, a student can show up with innate talent to just drive the car, but having that combined with knowing flag awareness and mirrors/traffic management makes this brass ring ever so elusive in the real world.
Sometimes the student's raw talent works against them soloing. That Corvette guy I mentioned in the other thread was so quick that only about 3 cars managed to catch him all weekend, even as I was running him in higher run groups. I really had no idea, based upon three point-bys, just how good his traffic management was. These three cars slowly caught him. What would he do if someone really pounced on him? In the end, it didn't matter, as the guy had great judgement and attitude and didn't care if he was solo or not.