jscott82

About me: started doing DE in 03, started instructing in 06. Tried my hand at racing in 08 and wound up in the armco in the enduro. Went back to DE only after that. Fast foreword to 2019, built a new spec cayman to try racing again. Have done 2 races so far (2020 was a bust)...

All that to say I think I know "how" to drive. What I am struggling with is confidence. 1) confidence to really slide the car around. My monkey brain just chickens out. 2) confidence in close proximity to other cars ie: diving in to the inside. I loose my nerve that the car will stick, even though I know it will.

Ive hired a few coaches in the past that have been tremendously helpful (thanks peter). Called skip barber and they recommended a day of private coaching for $$$$$$$. Now I'm having doubts that this is going to get me what I need.

Anyone done this?

Any other advice, other than "grow a set, you pu$$y"????

ldamelio

If your problem is confidence and not technique, I doubt that one (or several) days of coaching is what you need. It's more a problem for cognitive behavioral therapy or self-help along that line. Take a look at books out there. While oriented towards climbers, The Rock Warriors Way is a good read. Helped me in other sports where fear of heights and drops were affecting my performance.

ProCoach

Jeff, the reason why you’re not able to “commit” is due to a lack of confidence. To increase confidence, you need the experience of pushing a car until it pushes back. You are NOT alone. Folks like Patrick Dempsey, Kevin Clayton and others have undertaken programs that helped them address that issue specifically.

Dirtfish Rally School, Team O’ Neil in New England or a day with Johan Schwartz, Mike Renner or Tom Long for a private day at the BMW school in Spartanburg would help you the most.

You need to know that the car isn’t trying to kill you, and that it’s OK that it steps out. Also, the rate and speed it steps out tells you a lot, and knowing that you can fix it will allow you to push harder and commit to the speeds required to match Cody, once you get some practice and commit to a specific methodology espoused by Johan, Mike or Tom.

I will tell you that the skidpad and autocross training, plus the threshold braking combined with a last second lane change in the Skip Barber School is a necessary thing for people to go through and understand the physics involved in order to push more. I don’t know if they still do that, but the curricula is (or was) terrific back in the day.

Cheer up. You have a great car (proven by the Enduro lap with Cody) and you have the intelligence and aptitude to do this, IF you can get the program taught to you to allow you to gain the confidence you need to go beyond what you THINK the car is capable of doing. PM me if I can help. Thanks for the kid words. You and I can do even more when you gain that confidence.

linzman

Peter nailed it once again. When I took the leap from DE to racing, I had similar feelings. Taking the car to the limits at a DE is much different than doing the same thing in much closer quarters in a race setting. I had the ability, but needed the confidence. For me, it was mostly seat time in the new environment that did the trick, but I would say doing some auto cross/car control events can only speed up the process. Now, it's not my car control that I'm worried about when I'm racing, it's my competitors

sjfehr

I've noticed that I'm supremely confident at autocross speeds, I can hang it out at 10/10 with a huge grin on my face up to about 70-80mph or so. But something starts to click in as I approach triple digits, and fear of death starts to override my enjoyment. I honestly enjoy VIR Patriot more than VIR Full because of this. I know this is irrational monkey-brain stuff; I want to be making deliberate rational risk decisions for specific corners. And mostly: I want to enjoy my experience on track, and I enjoy it a lot more when I'm comfortable.

For me, it's not confidence in the car or my abilities, I have that. It's something else. Is this just a factor of most of my experience being autocross and tracks with slower cornering speeds? How do I increase my speed tolerance?

85Gold

Jeff

I will 2nd DirtFish as a great option. I know of 2 local drivers who really were able to step up their game after going.

Peter

jscott82

Thanks insightful detailed response....

Cody certainly sets a very high bar... Not only is he setting track records, he does so in a safe, thoughtful and cutious fashion... its a masterclass watching him drive. I don't aspire to be at that level, ill settle for just duking it out for 2nd or third place.

Frank 993 C4S

If you have less than 30 - 40 recent races under your belt, this is totally normal. Seat time will get you there.

What really helped me was working with an experienced coach on a lead-follow basis with radio contact. I rented Miatas at various tracks and it was a tremendous experience to learn going off-line side by side though corners with an inch to spare, bump drafting, side drafting, etc.... Somehow he always had the faster car, but that didn't matter. Last year I worked with Johan Schwartz at the Porsche School at Birmingham, which was again an eye opening experience.

ProCoach

Cody is a great resource, even if he still has 0.270 to go before beating Dwayne Moses’ SPC track record at Summit Point.

I still think skid pad time with Johan or Tom Long at the BMW school not far from where you are would help a lot. Calibrating your butt gyro on how much and how fast yaw generation is ok (or not, with no penalty) would help a great deal.

Like Frank said, I think you’re so early on the curve here that you may be being too hard on yourself. A lot of folks who are very successful in all or most other areas in their lives think that they should be closer to doing the same thing, right away, in a car, on a track, with a bunch of others just a few feet away. I can count on one hand how many (out of tens of thousands) who were “naturals.” It takes a commitment to get there. You’ve made a good start.

Outlaw 06

Have you considered doing the Skippy 2-Day Advanced Racing School instead of private coaching? You’ll get a half day on the autocross and skidpad out of it. I’ve done that school numerous times at numerous tracks, and it’s always a good learning experience. The coaching you’ll receive from Terry Earwood, Bruce McGinnis, and others is definitely worth the price of admission (especially if you’re able to get a promotional discount).


If you want a great bang for your buck with private coaching, the BMW performance school in Greer, SC is hard to beat. Me and my youngest son went this year and we each had a private coach for 3 hours. We chose to do an hour on the skid pad simultaneously, an hour on the timed autocross simultaneously and an hour on one of their road course configurations simultaneously. All in the cars of our choice, which happened to be M2 Comps. The best part is that we were the only two people who booked private instruction that day, so just the two of us had a blast on track at the same time (we were 180 degrees opposite drifting around the skid pad, which isn’t easy is a short wheelbase car like the M2). The coaching was all done face-to-face and by radio.

I highly recommend both!

Zhao

Why are you afraid? Is it a fear of injury, a fear of monetary loss driving a nice race car, fear of losing face damaging someone else's car, or something else (like do you race on a high speed track with no run off, or down a cement tunnel?)

Monetary fear would be served best by starting out in a slow cheap race car on a slow track to build confidence. I know I won't drive an expensive car full out (My GT4 is only going to be used for instructing and casual lapping).

Fear of injury would potentially be served by a slow race car on a slow track until you're comfortable knowing almost no one gets injured in this sport unless it's their thumbs (don't hook the wheel). It's the wrong advice but I know after I put an open wheel car into a cement wall and came out with only 2 minor bruises on my arms I went from being almost fearless to having zero fear and that was true right up until I had a kid (now I have some fear and it makes me slower in some braking zones so I can see how this could cause a problem for some).

Is it possible it's anxiety too? With almost 20 years of DE experience sliding the car around should be about as difficult as putting on a pair of pants in the morning so is it possible it's more than confidence? I get bad anxiety for a loss of control/freedom so it affects me for being strapped in to a tight bucket seat (fortunately if it doesn't trigger until the green flag my mind focuses on going as fast as possible after that so it hasn't been a problem yet). I am a fairly logical person so it is crazy it affects me so bad since it is such an illogical thing, and it's even weirder one day it just started happening when there was no problem before. If it is anxiety there are ways to help with it with and without medicine.

Difool

A day at the track is a good day, and you do get some new experiences, like driving slidey cars and some fun race cars for the first time. My problem with a similar school (3-day version) was that there was too much classroom, mostly dedicated to basics, and that there were suptudents there without any relevant experience, holding the group back. In my group we had one student that had never driven a stick (we were in dog box cars, double clutching) and had never been on the track, AND wouldn’t get off his phone while not driving.

I think I was a black/advanced driver in PCA at the time, and didn’t really take away much that advanced my driving or racing skills. I learned far more in my first PCA club race.

coss1600

Don’t do the typical 3 day, do the 2 day advance course with more 1 on 1 coaching. I have similar issue. I can go well by myself, but I still struggle at high speed corners and I get nervous running in traffic. I get nervous because of other drivers, not so much my car control.

ProCoach

Two-day advanced usually has the pre-requisite of taking a basic three-day. But, you only need to do the three-day once.

jscott82

yup.. that was my issue... I called about the 2 day advanced, but was informed that scca or nasa race license were prereq, not PCA. So I would have to 5 days. Single day 1-1 coaching was my only option.... and cost the same as the 2 day...

I "accidentaly" signed up, and headed to road Atlanta next week.... I'll report back...