ProCoach

My friend and colleague Ross Bentley ha put some of his thoughts to paper on the subject, including his suggestions on how and when to teach this technique, here: When & How to Teach Trail Braking | Speed Secrets

will968

I teach it on day one. Entering a big turn without smooth front loading scares me. It's a fundamental and, to this date, no student has rotated the car on entry or spiked their brakes mid-corner.

winders

I love racing against guys who don't trail brake......

69911s

How many folks actually pop off of their brakes on the street before they turn the wheel? Most drivers learn to appreciate the stable feel of a vehicle under appropriate braking entering a turn naturally. Maybe just don't unteach something they already have.

bbinder

Although trail braking was probably taught in the classroom when I first began attending HPDE events, the lesson did not seem to carry out onto the track. Whether it was the (in car) instructor's direction or my interpretation of what the instructor was telling me (and most likely the latter...), I felt that I had to be totally off the brake before initiating any steering input. So I was not coming off the brake smoothly: when I felt that I need to start steering input and was easing off the brake, I put 'pop' off the brake pedal before starting to turn in. This is a habit that I needed to extinguish as I progressed. Full disclosure: I am an intermediate driver.

dgrobs

I was first taught to brake in a straight line (like street braking to a red light), etc.. Then I had to be untaught that technique when I started trailbraking.

For the students I've had, I like to go straight to trailbraking unless it is a first time student who is totally overwhelmed already.

Then it's brake in a straight line and turn in once you're off the brake.

If the student has the basics, it's straight to trail braking, which takes most students a bit of time to pick up anyway, at least in my limited experience instructing.

Have yet to have a student spin the car while learning to trail brake.

DTMiller

I'm with dgrobs, there is a time and place for brake in a straight line and the Venn diagram is a perfect circle with "this guy is actively trying to kill me."

For the other 99.99% of novice drivers, let's keep some weight on the nose and see how it feels.

TXE36

Trail braking in the sim was one of the few things that directly translated to the track - I was trailbraking on day 1. Noticed I was doing it and was trying to follow the class advice of brake in a straight line and made comments to my instructor - it never bothered him, so I kept doing it. It is one of the parts of the sport I really enjoy.

For my students, I start teaching it when they are listening and are at least somewhat smooth and are starting to get weight transfer.

I'm curious about Ross' advice about when to start.

De Jeeper

Well after 32yrs of street driving and being told to finish your breaking before turning, trail breaking is very hard to accept. Looks like i will have a very technically proficiant instructor at njmp this weekend so i hope i can drill this concept into my subconsious.

Now off to read the link in the first post

Matt Romanowski

I think what Ross does really well in the white paper is not only explain why to teach trail braking from the start, but he cuts through all the confusing language. There are a ton of drivers and coaches who work to obscure and/or make things harder than they really need to be. By using simple language and definitions, it's not hard to relay that to a student or another driver. While we always talk about the best drivers doing the basics better, it really comes down to that. The nuance of trail braking is feeling the grip on entry while braking and slowing releasing the pedal.

dgrobs

Metro at Lightning ?

De Jeeper

Its 2 days with DE pca on thunderbolt. I have a Imsa and wrl driver as a coach.

dgrobs

I’m with Metro at Lightning Friday and Saturday. Dropping off in an hour.

Have fun and be safe. Report back on your trail brake progress.

De Jeeper

While trying not to hijack the thread i wanted to answer the question. It turns out when u have a real coach (not just a safety instructor) u find out how bad u suck. We had to work on breaking 35 yrs of street driving habits and never got to the trail breaking. The guys name was Sean Dempsey, he drives imsa and wrl and gives back by volunteering for the DE pca event. Simple adjustments and explaination of technic made me much more comfortable in the car. I was extreamly lucky to get him in the car for 2 days and will probably do a paid coach day next season after i get more practice in.

And because we all like video of track time, even if its shacky with crappy volume. It was the 4th session on sun, sun was low and they combined us with green so i had some traffic. Third lap was the fastest of the session. Sean said i have too much self preservation , so it may take me longer to get faster.

Hope u guys had a good time on Lightning, weather was perfect.

dgrobs

Metro event at Lightning was awesome as well. Great time great weather great drivers and I had a great student. He left the track a better driver than when he arrived and he had a ton of fun. Promoted him out of green into yellow for day 2 and while the pace was a bit faster, he adjusted well. Job well done. We’re back at Lightning this weekend with NNJR.

As for your “self preservation” comment above, Peter Krause (while I was working with him at VIR earlier this season), nailed it on the head.

He told me “you have to be comfortable being a bit uncomfortable”. He was spot on.

Glad you had a good weekend. Both tracks at NJMP were great this past weekend. Funny how that happens sometimes.