Vetch

Last weekend, I had to chance to meet up again with a great guy I used to know from my DE days. I got out of driver education events several years ago and he just gave it up recently (sold his track-only car a month ago). We both had different reasons for giving up the hobby, though I am trying to get back into it now.

He had concerns about safety, but more importantly he was concerned that DE's had become an "arms race" meaning that it's all about having the fastest car. He told me this a couple of years ago too. I feel bad for him to give up tracking, but I never enjoyed giving point-bys day in and day out either. So I reminded him of the famous quote that I had to Google first... "there is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your previous self."

But being superior to my previous self after a track day often meant logging my lap times... and I sort of hated doing that. When I was doing DE's (120+ of them), timing a session each day kind of ruined the enjoyment I got from being on track. I told him that I wouldn't time my laps if I got back into DE's. He said "then you probably don't belong on the track. DE's are a lot like race prepping at this point."

So my question is... Is it ok to do a lot of DE's if your primary concern is enjoyment and not lap times? I understand that the enjoyment for many people could be in timing their laps. Of course, I want to learn and grow in this again, but not if the clock is the sole focus. Anyone else out there feel this way?

ProCoach

There are lots of drivers in DE events that care not a lick what their lap times are. There are others that chase a particular benchmark, but they’re not going to compromise their own or others safety to do that.

Porsche and other companies have recognized this and incorporated Sports Chrono and other tools for those that wish to do that, but it’s all a matter of balance. Lap times are a performance measure, and not a very good one (too many things happen in a lap for the lap time to be the arbiter of all things).

I think the arms race has been going on since the dawn of DE. So much of DE is the pleasant conversations, banter and good friendships that come from “bench racing.”

Take a deep breath, relax and do it for the reasons YOU want to.

Don’t get distracted by what you think is the reason why others do it. Most people do DE’s simply to improve their driving, some do it to just be on track. There’s room for all.

KOAN

There are usually many run groups, which are roughly determined by experience and also lap time. Usually, the highest run group is for instructors. Some of them are just out for a drive, others are trying to achieve personal best lap times. The next run group tends to be the most dangerous...people (some with less experience), pushing hard. The run groups below that are usually slower, composed of people who are working on honing their skills. Depending on how fast you want to drive, one of these groups should provide you with an opportunity to have fun without feeling like you are slowing people down or giving too many point-bys. Most of the groups I run with have GT3 RS's, Cup cars and Club Sports driven by excellent drivers in the most advanced run groups. It would be best to avoid those groups unless you are comfortable driving at your own speed, but with a constant eye on your mirrors. With open passing, that can be accomplished pretty comfortably, IMHO.

Veloce Raptor

^^ exactly what KOAN and Peter said ^^

Whenever I am able to go to the track just for fun, in one of my street cars, I don't use a data system or a lap timer. I go for the pure joy of driving, and the friendships and camaraderie's that come with it. In the back of my mind, I know roughly how fast I am going, but it really doesn't matter. I give, and take, point by and have a great time out there, and remain conscious that I am driving a street car without a roll cage etc., so I definitely dial it back a bit. But I assure you, I have just as much fun as everyone else out there, which is exactly why I do it. Nearly all of us got into the sport as a hobby to begin with, for the fun of it, and it's nice to be able to continue to enjoy that spirit

LuigiVampa

I judge how well I am driving on a particular day by comparing myself to drivers with comparable driving skills and cars, instead of lap times.

While it is fun to get a PB there are too many variables that go into a lap time to make them an accurate benchmark on any given day.

stownsen914

I partially agree wtih the OP's observation that some at track events are very interested in lap times, going faster, etc. Not surprising for events held at a race track. But not all drivers have these goals. I've been instructing for many years. There are multiple versions of fun you'll see at track events. I've had some students who didn't appear to be that interested in going fast, never mind shooting for a particular lap time. Nothing wrong with that at all! As long as you are being safe and predictable (and not dangerously slow), I say enjoy!

It is worth noting that different clubs/regions have different cultures, levels of experience, and attract different types of cars. Some as faster / more aggressive than others and may attract a lot of faster cars / drivers. Ask around or try a few and see which ones you like and that align with your goals.

Vetch

Thank you. I guess my question now would be about the ratio of "lap timing" drivers to "enjoyment" drivers at events these days.

Several years ago, I could hold my own with the "enjoyment" drivers in the black run group in my C4S. I made a few good friends then and it was awesome. But some clubs were all aggressive racers and I felt really out of place with such a polarized set of participants. Hard to be comfortable in a group of serious racers when you feel like a minority "enjoyment" driver regardless of lap time. The problem in part was that I was doing 10 events per year and it got increasingly difficult to find events/clubs that had many of the "enjoyment" drivers. Even Schattenbaum changed that way!

If that ratio has grown, I don't think I could enjoy it but I realize its mostly about what I tell myself. I still think about my last event... what sealed my decision to end the hobby was a ride along with an instructor who drove a fairly straight line up the climbing esses at VIR... putting about a third of the car beyond the curbing. When I got out, I said I would never do that and his reply was "and that is why you will always be slow". It was the last nail on the coffin at that time and I've not been on track since then. Boohoo... whatever. I want back in now though. It is an addiction.

Veloce Raptor

What a horrible thing for that instructor to say. Frankly, that person should not be an instructor and should never be an instructor

9eight7

I tend to have more fun driving with people who are within a few seconds of myself than having no one around. I've gone to private track days where I barely see another car on track. It's cool at first but gets real boring after the first session.

New pb's are cool but I have the most fun driving with my friends. I usually go with 3-5 buddies with similar skill and cars. The morning sessions we'll start together but will aim for time, then the afternoon sessions we take turns chasing each other around (tires are usually greasy by then).

Cemoto

.
Vetch,

You are the perfect candidate for a member's club experience IMHO. Some days I feel like cranking it up, other days, not so much. It's all good.

Hope you find a home.

.

TXE36

Lap times can be a simple, convenient benchmark, but as others have said about DE, there is more to it. No doubt, a new personal best is great, but so is passing that guy you have been trying to catch for months or maybe years*. A lot about HPDE driving is relative, as there are all sorts of factors that impact that absolute lap time number such as traffic and conditions.

Also, as mentioned, other measures of ones driving quality is safety, predictability, and trust. How close are others on the track willing to get to you? How tight are they comfortable with giving/taking point-bys to/from you? If you are an instructor, do your students have fun? Do people enjoy riding with you? The list of performance measures is endless.

The bottom line is with proper traffic management, nobody really cares what your lap time is anyways.


*A favorite track moment of mine. Very first DE weekend got a ride with a friend/instructor and came away thinking that was so fun, I wish I could drive like him. Fast forward a few years and I managed to drive enough like him to pass him during a session - have no idea what the lap time was, but I do remember having to work for it.

jdistefa

OMG, did he put part of the car on the grass?

thuggo

There are some really dumb and dangerous instructors out there....who should not be instructing.

Veloce Raptor

THE HORROR !!!

LuigiVampa

The shock and horror of driving on the grass! Who, we must ask, who would do such a reckless thing as drive on the grass?!